Kellen Winslow jr. take him or not...?

[chrishcovga]

Is it true.. the best Defense is a good Offense.?? what do you think..?

[Kirkendall]

I like KW, but his attitude and outburst would often get ridicule from the same community that chastised Dillon. But he could free up two roster spots (maybe one depending the required depth of TE), so I see the benefit of drafting him.

There is benefit to this, but on the same token, this isn't the main problem of our team.

Good question, I can't come up with enough support to lean one way or the other, I see both sides.

[HoosierCat]

A lot can change between now and April, but I don't see Winslow being there at 17. He'd almost certainly be BPA at 17, so if by some miracle he were there I'd have to think long and hard about it. In the end, tho, I don't think I pull the trigger. To put it bluntly, the Bengals never utilize a TE much; it's probably the most underutilized position in the team's offensive game plan and has been for about ever. Unless they're going to revamp the playbook to take advantage of a top-notch TE (which would likely mean a corresponding drop in time/plays for Warrick) I don't burn a No. 1 pick on a TE, no matter how good.

What I probably do is deal the pick. Someone would give up their 1 and 2 to jump up and grab him, I think.

[Kirkendall]

the Bengals never utilize a TE much; it's probably the most underutilized position in the team's offensive game plan and has been for about ever.

Another reason Brat should be dumped!

[The Brew Man]

I like him but I think we have more important needs to address. Plus I voted that he wouldnt be there anyway....

[HoosierCat]

the Bengals never utilize a TE much; it's probably the most underutilized position in the team's offensive game plan and has been for about ever.

Another reason Brat should be dumped!

I'm no Brat fan & agree he needs to go, but the Bengals' neglect of the TE position goes back beyond his tenure. They always seemed to view it primarily as a run-blocking/pass-protecting gig -- which, as long as they're using Warick the way they're using him is fine with me -- so I don't see much point in drafting a stud TE. If Winslow came here he'd either end up underused (making him a leading candidate to replace CD in the soon-to-be-vacant DP (Disgruntled Player) position) or else theyd have to retool the playbook for him, and that's not what Carson Palmer needs right now, IMHO.

[Kirkendall]

They always seemed to view it primarily as a run-blocking/pass-protecting gig

It's the new look Bengals brother, it's time to change some of the past and welcome the future with open arms. As long as the threat is not there, then the other team focuses that much more on Warrick and Chad.

Palmer WILL need a quality TE that can read hot calls without the QB barking it out. This would be a perfect situation to pick up a TE, not even KW, but someone young. It would only help, not hinder the offense and Carson's development.

All this provided if the Bengals want to utilize the TE the way it should in modern football.

But you are absolutely right Joisey, the Bengals never use their TE the way it should be and that's just one less oppritunity for first downs and TDs.

[richmond_mat]

The bengals have not tightended effectively since rodhey holman left.

Is winslow even available? I thought he was a true sophomore. The nfl will be tested this year with Clarett and Fitzgerald. I bet the rules change.

Do I want him? I don't know. He has a lot of talent but seems like an arse and may lack mental toughness. Did anyone see the post va tech game interview? He should have been ejected a couple of games this year; senseless penalties.

[richmond_mat]

He is a junior, so he'll probably make himself eligible. Has he already?

[BengalszoneBilly]

Is it true.. the best Defense is a good Offense.?? what do you think..?

Hell no it's not true! The best defense is to HAVE a defense. As it stands, we have neither!

I believe with the offense we currently possess, with the addition of a better offensive lineman or coordinator, the offense is perfectly capable of doing it's job. That's with Palmer at QB, not Mr. "Help Me Jesus" Kitna! We need to dump him ASAP.

We have to have a defense ranked within the top 50% of the leagues defenses for the team to go anywhere. No one can deny this simple fact!! That ain't going to happen with our current defensive roster! A high draft choice at defensive end is a must! There just ain't nobody holding down the fort at that position! s**t, I can't single out the DE position, nobody's holding down diddly squat in the defense!

I'll be pissed off if they draft even one offensive position player! The offense works well enough, and will be even better without Jon-Boy and Mr. "It's all about me" Dillon. See ya' losers, and oh yeah, Kitna is a Loser! Capital "L" intended! For a QB to have all the experience he does, yet to find a way to play so poorly as he does...yeah, he's the definitive LOSER!

It's time for us to drop the "zero" and step up with the "hero"...Carson, your day has arrived! Jon? Aren't you late for Sunday school?

[Kirkendall]

Mr. "Help Me Jesus" Kitna! We need to dump him ASAP.

BILLLLLY NOOOOO! This is the first bombshell that you've said since I've known you. While I think it would be great to start Palmer, lets not throw away Kitna. He's not only stepping aside now for Palmer, he's talking about restructuring his contract, Kitna wants to be here and what a great back up QB Kitna would be.

Regarding defense - I say dump everyone. Give me one person and a reason why they should stay. Hell, we'd probably be better off having 53 man roster with all offense and special teams the way we played against the Oranges.

I'll be pissed off if they draft even one offensive position player!

You sound pissed off right now. That's ok, Sunday pretty much brought everyone down from the clouds.

Overall, I think dropping Kitna off the team would be a mistake. With a restructured contract, a desire to stay in Cincinnati already knowing the circumstances, what better situation at QB could you have? If Palmer gets hurt, god forbid (sorry Kit) then we'd have Kitna step in.

[HoosierCat]

Palmer WILL need a quality TE that can read hot calls without the QB barking it out. This would be a perfect situation to pick up a TE, not even KW, but someone young. It would only help, not hinder the offense and Carson's development.

All this provided if the Bengals want to utilize the TE the way it should in modern football.

I agree. But what's wrong with Matt Schobel? I've liked this kid from day one. He seems to have overcome his injury bug, he's not afraid to go over the middle, catch the ball, and take a hit, and he's got good, soft hands. I say that if the Bengals are going to do more with the TE spot, start there.

[Kirkendall]

I agree. But what's wrong with Matt Schobel? I've liked this kid from day one. He seems to have overcome his injury bug, he's not afraid to go over the middle, catch the ball, and take a hit, and he's got good, soft hands. I say that if the Bengals are going to do more with the TE spot, start there.

I like Schobel, but needs to do better at blocking. I completely disagree with having a rotational TE situation; you're giving away the play 99% of the time and in Brats offensive predictability, we can't afford that. If Schobel can dramatically improve his blocking, then I'm for sealing him up for a long time, but unconvinced as of right now. He does have great hands though and that is a bonus for a low tier guy.

[BengalszoneBilly]

I agree with JoiseyCat,

Nothings wrong with Schobel! The problem lies with the QB getting him the ball! There's not too much wrong with the pass blocking either. We just need a decent QB that can move in the pocket (Kitna has the scrambling ability of Herman Munster!) and who then knows when to GET RID OF THE BALL!! I belive both of these persons are one. His name?

CARSON PALMER!! Kitna had his chance. God forsaked him. Time to drop the "Zero", and get with the "Hero!"

C'mon and think about it for a minute, there is no way we should spend what we spent on Palmer, just to have him hold the clipboard for someone else. Not at this point. Whoa...I feel a poll coming on, but maybe you should word it Josh. I'm not very neutral on this topic!

[Kirkendall]

C'mon and think about it for a minute, there is no way we should spend what we spent on Palmer, just to have him hold the clipboard for someone else. Not at this point. Whoa...I feel a poll coming on, but maybe you should word it Josh. I'm not very neutral on this topic! 

Me neither Billy, I'm very pro-Kitna. I agree that Palmer should be given the go ahead to start, you are just so anti-Kitna, it's almost like you hate him for the stupid sack in the first half that made me just bury my head in my hands with shame, disappointment, embarrassment, Helplessism all over again, etc. But in reflection, after my emotions came to pass, I have to give credit where's it due and if Kitna wants to stay after all of the crap he's gone through the two years before, restructure his contract, live in West Chester (first time he's lived outside of Washington) and be the backup, hell lets do it. Are we going to find a better QB to back up Palmer than Kitna?

There's not too much wrong with the pass blocking either

Actually, his blocking is bad. How many times have the plays been to his side only for Rudi or Corey stretch it out and lose 2-3 yards. This is way we have Stewart and Kelly, both are needless wastes on this team for the amount of times we pass anyway.

WHERE ARE MY KITNA BOYS??

[richmond_mat]

WHERE ARE MY KITNA BOYS??

I am in favor of Kitna being the starter unless Palmer looks soooo good that the coaches change the lineup. Kitna will get knocked out at some point and then palmer becomes the man.

I wish palmer had gotten some PT this season. It's hard to evaluate a player holding a clipboard.

Kitna didn't lose any games, but his evangelicity is annoying.

[Arizona]

Winslow will go top ten. Every team is looking for the next Gonzalez, Shockey, or Heap, and this kid could be physically superior to all of them. Of course, he's a delusional ass, so if you care about chemistry you shouldn't take him. Whereas Shockey is brash but a team player, Winslow is me first me first me first me me me me me me first.

My rec for the 17th-20th pick, trade down and pick up more picks, either this year or next year. By 17 most of the studs are gone (then again, we did pick Reed at 24 and Ray Lewis at 26 and Boller at 19.) Nevermind, I don't know what I'm talking about...

[WHO DEY AGAIN?]

He won't be there and this draft is ALL D but if a decent O-line guy falls to the 2nd round then snatch him up. I just hope a hugh number of underclass men declare.

D-line and cover corners must be addressed. The offense is fine at the skill spots. I have not checked out FA fullbacks but that could be upgraded. Many guys that started this year will be role players and we could end up with a real depth chart next year. I can't wait for the draft!

[Kirkendall]

Actually I've been thinking, what about trading Rudi (we'd get really good picks) and what happens with Dillon. This way we can draft a RB in the first (like Jones or Benson or whatever), plus our first round pick and strictly D on out.

Just a proposition (I think Chris brought this up before).

[chrishcovga]

I said it before, and i'll say it again.. Reggie Kelly,and Tony Stewart don't offer anything when it comes to a pass catching threat....

solution.....

buy Matt Schobel a " total gym" so he can stay healthy., and go for Kris Wilson te from Pittsburgh in round 3 or 4.

[redsfan2]

WHERE ARE MY KITNA BOYS??

Here I am. Sorry I'm late, just got back.

Can't believe that this is the same Kitna that everyone was talking about as an MVP here recently. That was the overwhelming consensus at the time wan't it ?????

I like Kitna. I like his attiude and his loyalty to the Bengals organization as well as the guys on the team. More importantly, they like and respect him as a leader of the team. That makes him valuable. He's not only willing, but anxious to turn the team over to Palmer not because he doesn't want to play, but becasue it'll be better for the team. He thinks of the team first, and thinks of himself in terms of what he can do for the team. Call me corny, but I respect that. It's called being selfless.

Palmer is the better qb. Even Kitna says that. Two scenarios are possibilities. First, Bengals say thanks Jon. There's the door. Good luck. And then addresses the team and says. We just got rid of the guy you all looked to on offense last year as your leader. Here's Carson. He'll be taking over so you better listen to him. Anyone care to guess at the teams reaction ??????

Second. Kitna reworks his deal actively promotes Palmers rise to the starting position, and talks him up to the guys that supported him all year. Advises Kitna where needed, provides moral support for Palmer and talks down the naysayers, and stays ready to step in as back up if needed. ( how many back ups do you KNOW can win you at least 8 games? ) Predicted team reation .... If Kit's OK with it then so am I.

Now the question is, which of those 2 do you think is more conducive to team unity ? Which way is it easier to get Palmer into the game and have the support of the team ?

I said I like Kitna. Never said I didn't like Palmer. Said we need to keep him. I do ... for the reasons I just stated. I didn't say he should be the starter. I think we have a better team with him than we do without him.

[richmond_mat]

Actually I've been thinking, what about trading Rudi (we'd get really good picks) and what happens with Dillon. This way we can draft a RB in the first (like Jones or Benson or whatever), plus our first round pick and strictly D on out.

Just a proposition (I think Chris brought this up before).

You're right on about trade value, but RB's are not always durable. It's a perilous position and the average nfl career for RB is something like 3 years.

I'm not sold on Jones from va tech. But I only watched him play once (against west virginia) and he only managed 67 yards against a mediocre D. But tech was getting thumped and they had to pass the ball. Big numbers against miami and pitt were easy this year. He does have talent.

The fact is that often the best back in college played somewhere no one cared about. Maybe our new scouting department will find us a sixth round sleeper.

[redsfan2]

Wouldn't want to see Winslow on the team if he was available. I don't think the coaches we have could teach him anything, cause he already seems to know it all. He may have gotten some of his fathers ability, but he sure didn't get a lot of his moral character.

To sum up some of the other posts; don't want Winslow, Woodson, Sapp, Terrel Owens, Jeff George, Bill Romanowski, K. Johnson, ........... and now you can add to the list Corey Dillon. All of these guys have a couple of things in common. They are very good football players, and they are very bad team players. For them, it's always all about them. It's yea me .... screw you. You kissed my butt in the wrong place. You don't respect me and you insult my family by not offering me twice what everybody else gets. I can't stand idiots like that, and dressing them up in stripes is not going to make them any more acceptable.

You can take a guy with a good attitude and teach him everything he needs to know to do his job. You can't take somebody with a bad attitude, and teach him to have a good one.

[richmond_mat]

To sum up some of the other posts; don't want Winslow, Woodson, Sapp, Terrel Owens, Jeff George, Bill Romanowski, K. Johnson, ........... and now you can add to the list Corey Dillon. All of these guys have a couple of things in common. They are very good football players, and they are very bad team players. For them, it's always all about them. It's yea me .... screw you. You kissed my butt in the wrong place. You don't respect me and you insult my family by not offering me twice what everybody else gets. I can't stand idiots like that, and dressing them up in stripes is not going to make them any more acceptable.

right on

[BengalszoneBilly]

Kitna didn't lose any games, but his evangelicity is annoying.

It seems that way to me too Mat, but...

Unless you're the almighty himself, you need to be packin' hell with attitude, and NOT be afraid to whip it out when needed. Oh, and I do believe Kitna was at least 50% of Sundays loss!

Throw the ball Jon!! Throw the ball Jon!! Throw the ball Jon!! Oh, nevermind. You've been sacked. Again. Let go of the ball now Jon...the ref has to spot it so you can get to hold it all over again! Pretend it's a fumble. It might be easier for you to let it go!

What a perfect backup he'll make to Palmer!