Bengals Sign Orlando Brown

[HoosierCat]

So…do we actually have pen meeting paper on this yet?

I’m sure it’s just the long decades making me paranoid, but, uh, could we make this official, Bengals?

[ArmyBengal]

Now you did it

[HoosierCat]

7 minutes ago, ArmyBengal said:

Now you did it

I know. When it falls apart you can all blame me.

[COB]

If it isn’t signed yet, yes I assume we’re getting played.  

[HoosierCat]

1 minute ago, COB said:

If it isn’t signed yet, yes I assume we’re getting played.  

The way Brown has been talking and his TV appearances don’t give me the impression of someone trying to leverage this into a bigger deal.

What I’m more fearful of is either Mikey getting cold feet, or the Bengals trying to do some funky financial gymnastics in the contract that get vetoed by the league office.

[HoosierCat]

Well, the contract details are out, which is a good sign.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cincinnati-bengals/orlando-brown-jr-25182/

Looks like it’s basically a 3-year, $50m-ish deal. Year four he would have a $22 million cap hit versus $8 million dead money, so if they want him beyond year three that will get redone.

[AMPHAR]

$21.9m cap hit in the last year of the deal.   If he's pro bowl level still, you have to like that. 

 

 

 

[ArmyBengal]

In 4 years time, 21.9 million for a LT will be bottom of the market.
Yes, I like that a lot !!!

[HoosierCat]

Yeah, we all like it. Which is why it doesn't make any sense.

Let's say you are Orlando Brown's agent. Brown had a $130m offer on the table from Kansas City last year. You told him not to take it, he could get way more in March. How do you turn around now and tell him to take a $60m offer from Cincy? You just cost him $70m! If Brown signs this deal, how are the next two words out of his mouth not "you're fired," and how are you not a laughingstock who will never get another client again?

(And yes, maybe you told him to take the deal and he was just pissed at the Chiefs and declined, but even so, who is he going to blame now? You, of course. Stopping him from making dumb financial decisions is your job after all. You are still hosed if he takes this deal.)

So how did it even come to this? Curious, I decided to google "Orlando Brown Jr agent" and hoo boy is there a story here.

Y'all remember Moobs' rookie holdout? His babyfaced noob agent rolling up to PBS in a limo like he was King Shit? Him getting eviscerated by Katie? Ah, good times. Well, as ABBA once sang, "mama mia, here we go again."

As it turns out, Brown hired a new agent last June, Michael Portner. Now, did he hire Portner for his depth of experience and track record of success at representing top-tier athletes? Ha ha ha no. In fact, Porter has never negotiated an NFL contract before! In fact it appears he has never negotiated any pro deal in any league! STOP LAUGHING!!!! No, he got hired because of the feels, man. He and Brown had a "deep connection" blah blah blah. It's all in the glorious press release linked above, which straight up declares that his total lack of experience is a plus! SERIOUSLY STOP LAUGHING!!!

It's Moobs all over again. This guy is meat under Katie's knives. I imagine that they came in looking for a one-year deal, something structured like the one Reiff got a couple years ago, just for more money, so they could try FA again next year. But Katie dropped $34 million in year 1 money on the table and basically trapped them. Tough to take a 1 year deal for, say, $17-18m after that.

Anyhow, just a thought, but it's the only way I can make sense of such a steal of a deal.

 

[AMPHAR]

Supposedly there was a lot of funny money ramping up the average per year in the Chiefs offer.     Since he never put pen to paper we'll never know for sure.  

 

[AMPHAR]

Katie is a smooth talker

 

[HoosierCat]

Looks like it’s finally official, so good job Bengals.

https://www.bengals.com/news/bengals-roster-moves-orlando-brown-jr-free-agency-2023

[membengal]

you have the worst ptsd ever from the Warren Sapp thing... 

 

let it go, man!

[GapControl]

I remember waiting for the Bengals to draft him the year the Ravens did .  I’m glad they’ve added his NFL pedigree and pro-bowl history to their roster, it will make a difference.  Here’s hoping he makes the Bengals ring of honor one day !

[HoosierCat]

ESPN ranks this as the second best deal of FA.

Quote

2. OT Orlando Brown Jr. to the Bengals

The deal: Four years, $64 million ($43.5 million guaranteed)

When you look at the contract numbers, keep in mind that this same offseason Jawaan Taylor received $80 million over four years and Mike McGlinchey received $87.5 million over five years. Brown is the best tackle of the three and the only one who has played left tackle in the NFL. And on a per-year basis, he is being paid the least. An average of $16 million per year for a good 26-year-old left tackle is plenty palatable.

Brown's 92% pass block win rate at tackle ranked 18th out of 64 tackles -- McGlinchey was 32nd and Taylor was 37th -- but he also did it with double-team help just 27% of the time, the fourth-lowest rate. His run block win rate was average (significantly worse than McGlinchey, but significantly better than Taylor).

Crucially, the Bengals' need here was massive. The idea that their offensive line cost them at the end of last season because of injuries isn't quite right; the line wasn't all that good to begin with, particularly at tackle. Jonah Williams and La'el Collins had pass block win rates of 84% (55th) and 81% (57th) last season, respectively. Bringing in Brown is a huge step forward in fixing the biggest problem for a Super Bowl contender.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/insider/story/_/id/35872447/2023-nfl-free-agency-signings-ranking-best-deals-contracts-fits-values
 

For those wondering no. 1 was the Raiders stealing Jakobi Meyers for just $11m a year.

[HoosierCat]

And the deal looks even better now…

Quote

Houston Texans left tackle Laremy Tunsil has become the highest-paid offensive lineman in the NFL after agreeing to a three-year, $75 million extension, sources told ESPN on Sunday.

The deal includes a $30 million signing bonus with $50 million fully guaranteed and $60 million in total guarantees, sources said.

In December, Tunsil told ESPN that he wanted to "reset the market" and become the highest-paid offensive tackle. Now the seven-year veteran accomplishes that feat by surpassing San Francisco 49ers left tackle Trent Williams, who has made $23.01 million per season since 2021 on his six-year, $138.06 million extension that included $55.1 million fully guaranteed.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/35895322/sources-cowboys-trade-texans-wr-brandin-cooks

[AMPHAR]

In the late 80s  Boomer and Co. rolled a constant top 5 offense and most the time top 2.   Hitting averages that have not been seen by Burrow and Co.  For a brief period Boomer was up there with the Marino's of the world.  Munoz, Eddie Brown etc.   Always had a the hybrid FB/HB to compliment Brooks. 

Different times today. 

Bengals can find a way to roll out Brown, Higgins, Chase and Burrow the next 4 years I would hope they can start hitting those 400 yard  per game marks.     On paper having that level of player at those spots makes it easier to back fill the others like it was in the late 80s.

They are going to be tough to deal with.    They find a higher level Right Tackle and your talking about 2015 bengals with a better HC and QB.

 

 

 

[HoosierCat]

Jonah trade rumors pot bubbling, allegedly “several” interested clubs, still nothing concrete.

https://sports.yahoo.com/bengals-trade-talks-involving-jonah-134156107.html

[ArmyBengal]

I'm not surprised teams are asking about Jonah.  Finding even average OT's is a challenging task.  

The question becomes... what do the Bengals want in return?
I honestly hope something gets done.  Maybe instead of picks, there could be a swap of picks so the Bengals can move up.  I would be just as happy with that.

[TJJackson]

I figure either the Colts or Bears will be the trade partners

I suspect we may have to eat some of his 2023 salary as part of the deal.  1-2 M would be OK as long as the trade partner provides a higher draft pick in exchange for the cap savings.  1-2M and a 2023 r4 or a 2024 r3 (or better) would be acceptable. 

I'm not anti-Jonah but I dont want a player protecting New Guy who doesnt want to be here.   I see that as an on-field disaster in the making

[HoosierCat]

I highly doubt the Bengals would be willing to take on any salary. $12 million for a starting tackle is cheap and if a team wants to lower his cap hit, all they have to do is give him a new deal.

If the trade is for picks, I wouldn’t expect anything better than a 5th this year. Maaaybe a late 4th/comp pick 4th if the team has one. Bengals have no real leverage here. Either they move Jonah for whatever they can get, or keep a disgruntled guy with a $12 million cap hit for one year, after which he leaves and they get nothing.

If they are willing to trade him for future picks they might be able to improve things by a round, so maybe a 4th with a possibility it could improve to a 3rd if he plays 80% of snaps, makes the pro bowl, grows a third arm, etc.

Hopefully they get a first for him and make me look dumb but that’s how I see it.

[AMPHAR]

Jonah Williams is not disgruntled to a point that it will effect his play going into a contract year.   IMO, that's a bad assumption.

He just saw 2 career Right Tackles and 1 bad Left Tackle get paid.   The 2 right tackles will get $20m this year.  The 3rd tackle's details aren't released yet.     He's right in line or better than those players.     He just saw Brown and Tunsil bank roll $32m this year; 2 players he's not in line with.

No matter what you think about his stature at Left Tackle;  requesting a trade allows him a shot to beat the $12m he is scheduled to make this year via a new contract with trading team or at worse allows him a jump start to gauge interest/market for next off season.

IMO, there should be little concern about Jonah Williams going Cordy Glenn on the Bengals.    The Bengals have already played in Championship games with Prince and Adeniji at RT they won't hesitate to bench Williams IF he goes rogue.   That hurts his market.

Jonah Williams could be looking at few more million in his pocket and that's probably the bigger motivation behind his trade request.   If he has to play RT with the Bengals he's going to try to ball out because an average career RT nailed a free agent contract paying him $20m a year.   He can certainly match Taylor on film at RT.

 

 

 

[ArmyBengal]

I'm at a point today that I don't want additional picks.
There is probably more value in swapping picks to move up in an earlier round than the 4th or 5th we might get in an extra pick for Williams.

For example, would you move from 60 to somewhere in the 40's in the 2nd round?
We would get better value in the 2nd round and rid ourselves of a player that doesn't want to be here, while saving 12 million dollars.  Said team would get a starting caliber OT on the cheap and wouldn't have to give up a pick.

Totally hypothetical, but we've made moves like that in the past.
 

[HoosierCat]

Yeah, swapping picks is an option as well and I like it better than a late round scrub too. Lots of options.

As for Jonah being disgruntled, I mean, clearly he is. How that impacts his play, I dunno. Yes, you would think he’d ball out to maximize his value in 2024, and if he stays I’m hoping that’s the case. But we won’t know until September.

[ArmyBengal]

I don't think I would worry about him being disgruntled, which I think he is, and how that would affect his play.
I would be more concerned with how him being disgruntled would impact the relationships on the o-line.
While I think he would do the best he could, should he remain, that's a contentious o-line room to deal with.