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Cowboys @ Bengals Game Thread

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Shawn Williams was stepping on people, he could hurt someone out there. /meanwhile normal play of the game practically kills guys/

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I mean sure, the Bengals could draft Sewell and have a great draft. And be a better version of incompetent and end up 6-10.

If they ever creep to 8-8, whoever is the HC will get an automatic 20 year extension. There really is no desire to be great.

I think this season might finally be the one that breaks me. The reason I'm feeling that is I'm not even upset. I've been waiting on the final evidence to put the speculation to bed. It's why I was so excited to see Burrow drafted. Put up or shut up. And it's not looking good. But at the very least we're getting a clearer idea of what to really expect.

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10 minutes ago, cincyhokie said:

I think this season might finally be the one that breaks me. 

I’m right there with you.  The FO total lack of urgency in regards to the O-line was infuriating but predictable.  Then worse case scenario shows up with Burrows’ injury.  
 

What a dismal organization.  

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Yup and Taylor can go home and sleep at piece knowing he is safe here in Cinci! Whenever asked anything about this team, Taylor is always saying he is comfortable doing it how they have been doing it! That’s the problem with this team, everything is just comfortable, no need to change who they are!  

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10 hours ago, cincyhokie said:

I mean sure, the Bengals could draft Sewell and have a great draft. And be a better version of incompetent and end up 6-10.

If they ever creep to 8-8, whoever is the HC will get an automatic 20 year extension. There really is no desire to be great.

I think this season might finally be the one that breaks me. The reason I'm feeling that is I'm not even upset. I've been waiting on the final evidence to put the speculation to bed. It's why I was so excited to see Burrow drafted. Put up or shut up. And it's not looking good. But at the very least we're getting a clearer idea of what to really expect.

At least Burrow was as advertised. Maybe even better. That will keep me interested enough to care for awhile longer. If Burrow had been a disaster that probably would have been my end point. I expect Burrow to fully recover from the knee, so they go back to being immediately competitive if so. 

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2 minutes ago, membengal said:

At least Burrow was as advertised. Maybe even better. That will keep me interested enough to care for awhile longer. If Burrow had been a disaster that probably would have been my end point. I expect Burrow to fully recover from the knee, so they go back to being immediately competitive if so. 

Oh, for sure. He's awesome. As advertised.

Good enough to get them to lose some playoff games at some point in the next 5 years. 

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I'm not going to pretend this organization has done anything to deserve defending, and so I won't defend them. I will, however, suggest that any game in the 2020 season without Joe Burrow playing in it is effectively meaningless. We don't need to treat these junk games as indicators of anything good or bad, because they are irrelevant. A team that went 2-14 last year ain't winning shit with its backup or third QB. We can assess certain moments in time, e.g. tempers boiling over into multiple ejections or the offensive line matadoring defenders into their quarterbacks, and wonder if the coaches have a clue. But losing is meaningless right now.

Long term, the Bengals have Joe Burrow. That is not a small thing. That is quite literally half the battle in recent NFL memory. Get him a competent coach and you can win playoff games.

What are the New Orleans Saints historically without Brees and Payton? Hot garbage.

What are the New England Patriots historically without Brady and Belichick? Hot garbage.

What are the Indianapolis Colts historically without Manning and Dungy? Nothing impressive.

What are the Seattle Seahawks historically without Wilson and Carroll? Hot garbage.

What are the Kansas City Chiefs without Mahomes and Reid? They're a lot like the Bengals.

What are the New York Giants without Manning and Coughlin? Usually horrible.

Now I'm not saying there are no exceptions, and I'm not saying a good QB/coach combination guarantees a Lombardi Trophy. But it sure as hell gives you a chance, even if your franchise has been trash for its entire duration of existence. The Bengals themselves came reasonably close to hitting the mark with Lewis/Palmer and Lewis/Dalton, but fell just a bit short in both coach/QB slots. Now Burrow looks, at least to me, like a clearly superior prospective QB to either of those two. So do everything you can possibly do to pair him with a good coach and let the rest play itself out. There ought to be at least some decent candidates.

If Minnesota moves on from Zimmer, then don't hesitate to take him back. He definitely won't neglect the trenches. He'll probably overemphasize them instead (fine by me).

Try to lure Brian Kelly back to Cincinnati.

Have a go at Eric Bieniemy.

I know folks think this franchise does not draw top coaches, and usually that's true. But Joe Burrow is a bargaining chip they usually don't have. It's not necessarily the end of the world.

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It's just a mess.    Fans said the line sucks.   Even before Burrow was drafted here the strong opinion was that Cincinnati would ruin him.

At the end of the day the line sucks and Burrow has a busted knee.    The who, how, what and why don't really matter at that point.   It's just frustration upon frustration.

At the end of the day they need a shit ton of players.     You can look at Marvin 2003/04 and again in 08/09 and see how many former top 150 players they added to fill holes from bad draft classes or draft classes that fell apart due to injury or suspensions.

If they want to fire a coaching staff, go ahead.   However they need a front office willing to admit their draft picks from previous years aren't all that great and start raiding other team's roster or add a massive amount of picks.     The hole is so deep it's unlikely that dig out of it by using their normal load of draft picks.

 

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23 minutes ago, Stripes said:

I'm not going to pretend this organization has done anything to deserve defending, and so I won't defend them. I will, however, suggest that any game in the 2020 season without Joe Burrow playing in it is effectively meaningless. We don't need to treat these junk games as indicators of anything good or bad, because they are irrelevant. A team that went 2-14 last year ain't winning shit with its backup or third QB. We can assess certain moments in time, e.g. tempers boiling over into multiple ejections or the offensive line matadoring defenders into their quarterbacks, and wonder if the coaches have a clue. But losing is meaningless right now.

Long term, the Bengals have Joe Burrow. That is not a small thing. That is quite literally half the battle in recent NFL memory. Get him a competent coach and you can win playoff games.

What are the New Orleans Saints historically without Brees and Payton? Hot garbage.

What are the New England Patriots historically without Brady and Belichick? Hot garbage.

What are the Indianapolis Colts historically without Manning and Dungy? Nothing impressive.

What are the Seattle Seahawks historically without Wilson and Carroll? Hot garbage.

What are the Kansas City Chiefs without Mahomes and Reid? They're a lot like the Bengals.

What are the New York Giants without Manning and Coughlin? Usually horrible.

Now I'm not saying there are no exceptions, and I'm not saying a good QB/coach combination guarantees a Lombardi Trophy. But it sure as hell gives you a chance, even if your franchise has been trash for its entire duration of existence. The Bengals themselves came reasonably close to hitting the mark with Lewis/Palmer and Lewis/Dalton, but fell just a bit short in both coach/QB slots. Now Burrow looks, at least to me, like a clearly superior prospective QB to either of those two. So do everything you can possibly do to pair him with a good coach and let the rest play itself out. There ought to be at least some decent candidates.

If Minnesota moves on from Zimmer, then don't hesitate to take him back. He definitely won't neglect the trenches. He'll probably overemphasize them instead (fine by me).

Try to lure Brian Kelly back to Cincinnati.

Have a go at Eric Bieniemy.

I know folks think this franchise does not draw top coaches, and usually that's true. But Joe Burrow is a bargaining chip they usually don't have. It's not necessarily the end of the world.

Sounds great to me, but I’m not sure the Brown family is going to move on. There were reports already that said Taylor is not on the hot seat. They knew they were getting a non experienced coach, and it’s going to take time for him. Really though how much time do you need to see he can’t win games, even with a healthy Burrow he struggled. Just not sure there is hope they are going to fire this guy. 

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22 minutes ago, Stripes said:

I'm not going to pretend this organization has done anything to deserve defending, and so I won't defend them. I will, however, suggest that any game in the 2020 season without Joe Burrow playing in it is effectively meaningless. We don't need to treat these junk games as indicators of anything good or bad, because they are irrelevant. A team that went 2-14 last year ain't winning shit with its backup or third QB. We can assess certain moments in time, e.g. tempers boiling over into multiple ejections or the offensive line matadoring defenders into their quarterbacks, and wonder if the coaches have a clue. But losing is meaningless right now.

Long term, the Bengals have Joe Burrow. That is not a small thing. That is quite literally half the battle in recent NFL memory. Get him a competent coach and you can win playoff games.

What are the New Orleans Saints historically without Brees and Payton? Hot garbage.

What are the New England Patriots historically without Brady and Belichick? Hot garbage.

What are the Indianapolis Colts historically without Manning and Dungy? Nothing impressive.

What are the Seattle Seahawks historically without Wilson and Carroll? Hot garbage.

What are the Kansas City Chiefs without Mahomes and Reid? They're a lot like the Bengals.

What are the New York Giants without Manning and Coughlin? Usually horrible.

Now I'm not saying there are no exceptions, and I'm not saying a good QB/coach combination guarantees a Lombardi Trophy. But it sure as hell gives you a chance, even if your franchise has been trash for its entire duration of existence. The Bengals themselves came reasonably close to hitting the mark with Lewis/Palmer and Lewis/Dalton, but fell just a bit short in both coach/QB slots. Now Burrow looks, at least to me, like a clearly superior prospective QB to either of those two. So do everything you can possibly do to pair him with a good coach and let the rest play itself out. There ought to be at least some decent candidates.

If Minnesota moves on from Zimmer, then don't hesitate to take him back. He definitely won't neglect the trenches. He'll probably overemphasize them instead (fine by me).

Try to lure Brian Kelly back to Cincinnati.

Have a go at Eric Bieniemy.

I know folks think this franchise does not draw top coaches, and usually that's true. But Joe Burrow is a bargaining chip they usually don't have. It's not necessarily the end of the world.

The question is how fast are they willing to move?

In 2003/04 they knew there was a problem and added talent.

Current day it's clear they believe in their scouting and it sucks.

Are they willing to add another 4/5 decent FAs and keep their top FA guys?  I don't know.  

By decent, I don't mean pro bowlers (that'd be nice) but guys that have a good number of starts and were at one point top 150 drafted players.    Not back ups or low round potential guys.

 

 

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Assuming Burrow comes back fine, the offense is not IMO that far away. Get Jonah, Mixon and Uzomah back, draft Sewell, and find a speed receiver who can stretch the field. You don’t need another AJ, just Chris Henry II. Depth is obviously an issue but it always is.

The defense however needs a lot. The line needs a total makeover. LB is better than it was but still just average on a good day. The secondary has Bates and then a bunch of Jekyll-Hyde types. That said, fix the line and the back seven will look a lot better instantly.

In short I think it is fixable and in a relatively short time. Problem is that it requires good coaching and smart personnel management, neither of which this organization has. So we are reduced to the usual wishing’ hoping’ prayin’ that they somehow stumble into a pile of rose petals instead of the usual pile of crap.

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7 minutes ago, volcom69 said:

Sounds great to me, but I’m not sure the Brown family is going to move on. There were reports already that said Taylor is not on the hot seat. They knew they were getting a non experienced coach, and it’s going to take time for him. Really though how much time do you need to see he can’t win games, even with a healthy Burrow he struggled. Just not sure there is hope they are going to fire this guy. 

I got no idea what they'll do.    I don't think Burrow should pick the coach, BUT if he's confident in the scheme, concepts, game planning and play calling that would be the most important factor I'd consider in making a change to an offensive focuses HC and OC.

I don't know if you could steal Bill Callahan from the Browns by making him Assistant Head Coach or fuck it make him the head coach and keep his son as OC.

Line coach - The guy doesn't have talent to work with.  He was unpopular hire at the start.  The line sucks no matter level of talent there is.   I think you got to go different direction.   I'm not sure who knocks on the door for that job.    I wish the OC's dad would come down from Cleveland.

WRs - they need speed in the group but they perform solid across the board. 

Defensive staff - I think the story here is Marvin guys that were once great haven't been in quite a while.  They got another DC fired even before Sweet Lou.     They seem to want to play more 3-4 concepts coming from a solid 4-3 group.    At a minimum you got to make a change here because there would be a few more wins with a few more critical stops. 

 

 

 

 

 

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It's a scary thought to wonder if Melvin was the unicorn HC pick. And that we may never see a more successful HC here again. I mean, what is their track record in hiring good HC's since 1991?

But of course we "hope and wish" going into the season. That's what the FO does and it's what the fans do. That way when things go to crap, they can say "we tried". They'll get us all excited with some shiny draft picks and have Baghdad Hobson spin a few articles that get Lance McAlister and the rest of the goon media all excited.

The "hope and wish" method is solidified by picking coaches that are "diamonds in the rough" and/or "have showed promise in the organization". They'll never go above and beyond because 1) they don't want a real HC to come in and take control (that gives Mikey nightmares about what daddy went through in the late 60's) and 2) no reputable coach wants to come here.

Of course we can say the exception is Melvin, and I won't argue. But it makes my point even more valid that I think ML was the once in a lifetime unicorn HC. He might be our pinnacle, as much as it pains me to say it.

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1 hour ago, cincyhokie said:

It's a scary thought to wonder if Melvin was the unicorn HC pick. And that we may never see a more successful HC here again. I mean, what is their track record in hiring good HC's since 1991?

But of course we "hope and wish" going into the season. That's what the FO does and it's what the fans do. That way when things go to crap, they can say "we tried". They'll get us all excited with some shiny draft picks and have Baghdad Hobson spin a few articles that get Lance McAlister and the rest of the goon media all excited.

The "hope and wish" method is solidified by picking coaches that are "diamonds in the rough" and/or "have showed promise in the organization". They'll never go above and beyond because 1) they don't want a real HC to come in and take control (that gives Mikey nightmares about what daddy went through in the late 60's) and 2) no reputable coach wants to come here.

Of course we can say the exception is Melvin, and I won't argue. But it makes my point even more valid that I think ML was the once in a lifetime unicorn HC. He might be our pinnacle, as much as it pains me to say it.

The answer to your question depends on how fast they can fill in around Joe Burrow and Joe Mixon.

 

 

 

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The cap is going way down next year, good players will be available.  I fully expect teams like the Ravens, the Seahawks, and the Raiders to go out and get those players.  Us?  Better sign Hobson up for a few more creative writing classes.

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They spent last off-season a ton - this will be a good litmus test to see if they will repeat it.

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Fwiw I saw @profootballdoc on Twitter say that it looked to him like Jonah’s injury was an MCL,  not an ACL, and that he might only miss a couple weeks. If that turns out to be the case that would be a huge bullet dodged (though I would still sit him for the rest of the year because what’s the point.)

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