Early Season Offensive Success No Fluke - "Dalton is Good"

[ShulaSteakhouse]

If "damn good" means being the 13th-16th best QB in the league,  then that's accurate. 

[ArmyBengal]

Again, while I won't be banging the "Dalton's the best" drum anytime soon, being a middle of the pack starting QB in the league should be enough.
How many QB's since 2011 have gone in the first round that many would have argued were better than Dalton (and may be) but haven't done shit ??
There's simply more to it and I think the "more" is where this team has struggled.

Anyone begging for Jake Locker, Blaine Gabbert, or Christian Ponder, who were all taken in the first round ahead of Dalton in 2011 ??
Robert Griffin, Ryan Tannenhill, or Brandon Weeden (2012)
EJ Manuel (2013)
Blake Bortles, Johnny Fuckface, or Teddy Bridgewater (2014)
Jameis Winston or Marcus Mariota going #1 and #2 overall (2015)
Paxton Lynch (2016)
If there was a year to clamor about, it would be 2017 with Maholmes and Watson both going after we took John Ross.

However, I wouldn't put most of those QB's ahead of Dalton and even if I did, what have they done ??
Again, not banging the drum for Dalton being ranked the #1 QB in the league.
I just think some perspective is helpful.  Dalton is a middle of the pack starting QB that was had with the 3rd pick of the 2nd round.
Pretty good pick in most any draft scenario...

[COB]

We’ve got him on a team friendly deal, which is what has allowed us to spend cash on other positions.  Should result in a really good team.  One variable we didn’t account for - MARVIN LEWIS!!

[AMPHAR]

Eh,  Dalton’s staying power puts him near top 10 in my mind.  I’d say somewhere around 8-12.  Regular season. 

The land of NFL QBs is so roller coaster.   One year Dak is the next great thing now he’s not. Etc.

Only Elite QBs over many seasons over perform what Dalton has proven.  Dalton is not an elite QB.  Elite status is earned via post season. 

Quite frankly Bengal fans and this city are so skittish. Yes they lost to the Steelers again in the 4th qtr.  Yes they got their ass handed to them on Sunday Night football, again.  

Talent isn’t the issue.  Hasn’t been for a long time.   You have an owner that keeps a coach around that has not and will not ever capitalize when you must. 

The whole NFL is built on parity.  The bengals are getting to eat at that table more than what the cycle should allow.  However they are content with eating salad when they should be eating steak. 

No point getting on message boards downgrading players or assistant coaches like we do so much. 

Coaching matters and Marvin fucking sucks when the stakes are the highest and Mike is old and content and comfortable with how they are.  

There is no breakthrough moment. They don’t put their best foot forward in a parity driven league when they need to. 

 

 

[Stripes]

I tend to think of Dalton as a borderline top 10 QB in the same area as AMPHAR.  I just thought it through though and decided I would definitely place the following QBs ahead of Dalton, in no particular order:

Wilson
Rodgers
Newton
Brees
Ryan
Brady
Luck
Rivers
Roethlisberger

They have at least comparable (or superior) regular season success and superior postseason success.

That places Dalton 10th at best, which is still good enough I think.  There's a muddy group after that of guys who are vaguely comparable, some with considerable postseason success but none striking me as an obvious top-tier candidate.  Throw Dalton in with this group and I don't think that's unfair.

Smith
E. Manning
Wentz
Cousins
Stafford
Goff
Flacco

Then there's Mahomes, who this year looks like Mr. Bigshot.  I'm going to wait and see on that though; I've not seen solid evidence yet that he isn't RGIII or Dak Prescott and headed for a huge wall.  Watson is in a similar category.

[BengalszoneBilly]

7 hours ago, COB said:

We’ve got him on a team friendly deal, which is what has allowed us to spend cash on other positions.  Should result in a really good team.  One variable we didn’t account for - MARVIN LEWIS!!

Boom.

[GapControl]

12 hours ago, Stripes said:

I tend to think of Dalton as a borderline top 10 QB in the same area as AMPHAR.  I just thought it through though and decided I would definitely place the following QBs ahead of Dalton, in no particular order:

Wilson
Rodgers
Newton
Brees
Ryan
Brady
Luck
Rivers
Roethlisberger

They have at least comparable (or superior) regular season success and superior postseason success.

That places Dalton 10th at best, which is still good enough I think.  There's a muddy group after that of guys who are vaguely comparable, some with considerable postseason success but none striking me as an obvious top-tier candidate.  Throw Dalton in with this group and I don't think that's unfair.

Smith
E. Manning
Wentz
Cousins
Stafford
Goff
Flacco

Then there's Mahomes, who this year looks like Mr. Bigshot.  I'm going to wait and see on that though; I've not seen solid evidence yet that he isn't RGIII or Dak Prescott and headed for a huge wall.  Watson is in a similar category.

Great list. 

The Hype machine makes guys into superstars before they ever even put on their cleats.  I always wait to judge a player until the 3rd season is finished.

 

[AMPHAR]

KC is fun to watch, except last Sunday Night. 

To me the biggest interest in the NFL is there a defensive mind that can restore defense in this league?  That would start with slowing KC and Mahomes.  

Right now it looks like the rules and lack of contact practices has destroyed defense in this league.  

Weather and Injury may be the only thing that slows KC right now. 

[COB]

Lack of practice is an issue.  Also contributing to lack of D is the emphasis on safety and how receivers can go over the middle of the field without worrying about getting jacked up.  It has truly opened up the middle of the field to offenses in a huge way.  If our tight end could have stayed healthy, he and Dalton would have absolutely destroyed it this year.

[AMPHAR]

College b-ball placed emphasis on freedom of movement.   Coaches that ran the press basically dared the refs to call all the hand checking occurring.  

Sometimes it was a foul fest.  Most of the time the refs didn’t or wouldn’t call it all because it would ruin the particular game. 

Louisville won a National Championship riding guards up the floor and getting a portion of the fouls called BUT limiting the offensive production. 

Its going to take a D-coordinator to dare the refs to throw 20 defensive holding flags and destroy the game in the process for the defense to gain back competitive balance. 

[AMPHAR]

Also will take a new CBA to allow more padded practices because lack of contact creates bad pursuit angels and they never tackle to the ground in practice.  

[kingwilly]

On 10/25/2018 at 8:22 AM, COB said:

Lack of practice is an issue.  Also contributing to lack of D is the emphasis on safety and how receivers can go over the middle of the field without worrying about getting jacked up.  It has truly opened up the middle of the field to offenses in a huge way.  If our tight end could have stayed healthy, he and Dalton would have absolutely destroyed it this year.

The impact of head to head penalties hasn't been as much as the QB nonsense (can't fall on a player). I hesitate to say eifert does anything when he's so susceptible to injuries. Uzoma is just as able. You can scheme him nearly the same. Kroft, also skilled, is not as susceptible as eifert but. 

I think this is why the different screens are so hard to defend. The league is in a change period. They must ease the process of change or the adjustments will drive fans away. 

[ShulaSteakhouse]

On 10/25/2018 at 8:50 AM, AMPHAR said:

KC is fun to watch, except last Sunday Night. 

To me the biggest interest in the NFL is there a defensive mind that can restore defense in this league?  That would start with slowing KC and Mahomes.  

Right now it looks like the rules and lack of contact practices has destroyed defense in this league.  

Weather and Injury may be the only thing that slows KC right now. 

Agreed the defense has generally gone downhill generally speaking, I have no idea how the practices are affecting that, it's hard to measure.

But in Week 9, San Fran only gave-up 3 points, Chicago only gave-up 9, Miami held NY to 6,  Minn only gave-up 9 to Detroit, etc..., 

It's still quite possible to play good defense and hold offenses in check, just not KC, NO, NE or LA most of the time.

Regardless, my point is that the Bengals' D are not a "victim" to a trend so much as they are just plain bad.  Every team is putting-up 27+ against them, usually quite a bit more.  They are pretty much one of the only teams doing that all year so far.  They simply suck.