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What to do for 2017 and beyond!


combatbengal

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The thing is and I'm not going to pretend that I know what the problem is, BUT in all 7 games they never have played their best game of that season.  Never.   Across the board if you ranked their playoff performance against the way they played that season the highest grade you would get would probably be a D.

Generally speaking regular season games against top competition that end up on primetime are typically the same way with maybe a couple exceptions.

The team can run, block, tackle, catch, throw with best of league except when the stakes are at it's highest.   That's coaching, IMO.

 

   

  

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On ‎1‎/‎15‎/‎2017 at 11:27 PM, cincyhokie said:

Yep.  And when the inevitable injuries happen, the Bengals can't recover.  Which is why I think the "depth" strength award that's been given to this team over the past 6 years has been a mirage.  It's also the reason that when the end of the season comes and the Bengals tend to tail off.  But they'll go on with the excuses and Hobson's propaganda to push the narrative that this is a "winning team".  

The mirage of what it SHOULD be is never what really IS.  The narrative is that this really isn't a 6 win team (which it is) and that they're a few lucky bounces away from getting back to 12-4 (which it isn't and never was).  If anything, that 12-4 team in 2015 was a stars aligned blip of a fluke.  

Don't follow.   They are really a 6 win team because they only won 6 games.   The years when they won 12 were a mirage????

Seems a little off.

 

 

 

 

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54 minutes ago, AMPHAR said:

Don't follow.   They are really a 6 win team because they only won 6 games.   The years when they won 12 were a mirage????

Seems a little off.

 

 

 

 

Yeah, I agree.  What I am trying to say is that when the team went 12-4 it was because it had a crazy level of luck in the injury department.  There were holes that were covered up that needed to be addressed but weren't.  

And here's the thing.  I don't really think this is a 6-9-1 team either.  But it's BETTER to look at that reality and make adjustments than to see this as a 12-4 team and not make the needed moves.  Because the Bengals tend to overvalue pretty much everything.

That's all.  But yeah, the way I wrote it is a little weird.

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1 hour ago, cincyhokie said:

Yeah, I agree.  What I am trying to say is that when the team went 12-4 it was because it had a crazy level of luck in the injury department.  There were holes that were covered up that needed to be addressed but weren't.  

And here's the thing.  I don't really think this is a 6-9-1 team either.  But it's BETTER to look at that reality and make adjustments than to see this as a 12-4 team and not make the needed moves.  Because the Bengals tend to overvalue pretty much everything.

That's all.  But yeah, the way I wrote it is a little weird.

I agree with not looking at the current team as the 12-4 2015 Bengals.  I was slow to that point and get it now.

I will say the 2015 team could have been 10/11 wins or 13/14 wins.   I don't think it was mirage at all.  They were good and pissed it away unfortunately.

I would say that about the 2013 season too.  They could have easily been around 12/13 wins and they pissed away their playoff game.   

 

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2 hours ago, AMPHAR said:

The thing is and I'm not going to pretend that I know what the problem is, BUT in all 7 games they never have played their best game of that season.  Never.   Across the board if you ranked their playoff performance against the way they played that season the highest grade you would get would probably be a D.

Generally speaking regular season games against top competition that end up on primetime are typically the same way with maybe a couple exceptions.

The team can run, block, tackle, catch, throw with best of league except when the stakes are at it's highest.   That's coaching, IMO.

 

   

  

Yup and 14 freaking seasons of this shit!

Paul Alexander has been here like 24 freaking years, what good has that done!

How long has Zampese been here?

Its amazing to me how long these freaking coaches have been here, and they have yet to win a playoff game. Something is wrong with this picture here. You have new coaches around the league that are winning playoff games in there first year, second year, Marvin 14 years of Failure!

Fire some fu**ing coaches you lame ass owner!!!!

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2 hours ago, volcom69 said:

Its amazing to me how long these freaking coaches have been here, and they have yet to win a playoff game. Something is wrong with this picture here. You have new coaches around the league that are winning playoff games in there first year, second year, Marvin 14 years of Failure!

Fire some fu**ing coaches you lame ass owner!!!!

I'm just surmising here but I get the feeling Mikey is a kind of quiet, solitary type of guy. Keeps his few friends close.

He's in his comfort zone with folk around him whom he knows and he doesn't want to step outside of that comfort zone into the scarey world of if's and buts. Trouble is, nothing will ever change in that scenario - he needs to take a leap of faith and sever some heads. Get a little confidence going in yourself Mikey boy - Bengaldom will be right behind you.

And anyways, Hobson will always Hobsonate a situation as directed so that the "organisation" stays squeaky clean.

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Probably has nothing to do with Mikey.     The Bengals in the 80s were behind in terms of running a NFL team.   Paul was good enough to find talent and most importantly coaching talent.

When he passed that was exposed.   Then Mike Brown went into saving money mode to buy controlling ownership at a time the NFL was going through a major change.    With the sucking of money out of football operations and the changes the Bengals were stuck in the 70s.

Katie favored Marvin in 2003.  A first indicator she had some sort of say.   In 2010 something changed, for the better.

My guess is keeping Lewis is all about Katie looking forward to the future and wanting to preserve what they have football wise.  She's not going to burn that bridge with Lewis.

Marvin Lewis probably looks at it through his legacy.  He's 0-7.  He has talent at the right spots.   He had changes in the coaching ranks following 2015.   He probably thinks his best chance is to ride with the same staff vs. major overhaul.

Maybe, just a guess.   

 

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Well, just from a business perspective, the incentives for ownership (meaning the whole family) are weak. The team is comfortably profitable on top of everyone getting big salaries and bonuses. Last season notwithstanding they've had a five year run of good regular season ball. No one is making fun of Katie at the supermarket or flying banners over camp or passing out urinal cakes with Mike's face on them. Tens of thousands still fill PBS eight times a year. Etc, etc. So really, why expect them to expend much effort? Why not just sit back, light cigars with $100 bills and wait for the magic football fairy to pass over with her magic SB winning dust?

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12 hours ago, HoosierCat said:

Why not just sit back, light cigars with $100 bills and wait for the magic football fairy to pass over with her magic SB winning dust?

Wait for the football fairy and her magic dust?  In Mike's world, that has already happened.  He's got respectability and profitability.  Anything more, like a Super Bowl or an AFC Championship game, well, that's just up to fate.  

One thing is for sure, this team isn't winning a Super Bowl.  Even if we were to improve everything around Andy to an insane level, we still aren't going anywhere.  As exhibit A I direct your attention to what happened to Dak Dalton last week against the Packers.  Aaron Rogers insane arm strength and mobility aced out everything the Cowboys had - ridiculousy good line play, once every ten years running back, diva receiver, etc.  

You need one of the top 5 or 6 quarterbacks to seriously contend.   

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9 minutes ago, AMPHAR said:

Peyton Manning was ass last year.    There are other ways.    With that said, I'm not convinced the Marvin/Dalton Bengals wouldn't figure out a way to fuck it all up anyway.

 

 

Oh so true...

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2026.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/01/18/the-staggering-taxpayer-costs-of-paul-brown-stadium/

(And yes, you read that right, starting this season the county starts paying the Bengals $2.7 million to help cover game day expenses, i.e. HC taxpayers donate nearly $3 million to Mikey's bottom line. And that contribution grows every year to 2026...)

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Thanks Hoosier.
Not that I really needed to be reminded about how terrible that deal is, but I figured if I'm already getting kicked in the nuts, what's the difference ??
That and I really think it's going to be funny to watch that whole scenario.

Mike Brown:  "So Hamilton County taxpayers, where's the starting point on negotiating a new stadium deal ??"
Hamilton County taxpayers:  "So Mike Brown, go fuck yourself.  I heard San Diego, St. Louis and a few other cities still need a team."

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On 1/18/2017 at 11:25 AM, AMPHAR said:

You guys ever hear of Greg Cook?   Man, if it weren't for that shoulder injury....things would have been different, I'm telling ya.

 

Ha ha!  Oh no, the ghost of Greg Cook rears its ugly head!  

You might be confusing me with someone who has ever waxed poetically about what could have been if Cook has stayed healthy.  I doubt I've ever even mentioned him other than in this post.  

My point remains - the NFL has for whatever reason evolved into a league where winning is so dependent on an elite quarterback, that we could improve our defense, o-line and running game to elite levels, and we still aren't going to win the AFC with Andy behind center.  He's good at times, but he's just not good enough or consistent enough to be a playoff game winning quarterback.

Look at the 4 quarterbacks in the conference championship games we just watched -  Matt Ryan, Aaron Rogers, Ben Roethlisberger, and Tom Brady.  Pretty good group there.  

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12 hours ago, cincyhokie said:

Hobson headlines today with the 35th anniversary loss of SB 16 and "what could have been".  Shining moments in Bengals lore for sure.  35.  Years.  Ago.

Let it go.  

http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Super-close/44160d7a-ecb7-4c88-b7bc-901f764571bf

that's an underlining problem with the franchise.   Their best moments are getting beat by Joe Montana in spectacular fashion.

They did fuck up Superbowl 16 something special though. 

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1 minute ago, COB said:

Ha ha!  Oh no, the ghost of Greg Cook rears its ugly head!  

You might be confusing me with someone who has ever waxed poetically about what could have been if Cook has stayed healthy.  I doubt I've ever even mentioned him other than in this post.  

My point remains - the NFL has for whatever reason evolved into a league where winning is so dependent on an elite quarterback, that we could improve our defense, o-line and running game to elite levels, and we still aren't going to win the AFC with Andy behind center.  He's good at times, but he's just not good enough or consistent enough to be a playoff game winning quarterback.

Look at the 4 quarterbacks in the conference championship games we just watched -  Matt Ryan, Aaron Rogers, Ben Roethlisberger, and Tom Brady.  Pretty good group there.  

The Greg Cook comment was more in reference about how this franchise seems to wait for the stars align, Hoosiers magic football fairy reference.   Just conjures up images of Mike Brown and Katie sitting around lamenting about Greg Cook and what could have been.

I agree with your point about the QBs,  but I just don't think that's the only way.    You have Denver last year and Matt Ryan/Atlanta Falcons runs counter to your thoughts on Andy Dalton/Bengals.     

Although I'm not going to sit here and say it's a guarantee for the Bengals because in the end the NFL is littered with good teams that don't win it all or even get to a Superbowl.      The Atlanta Falcons just killed the beast the Bengals have been battling under Lewis with Dalton.    

I believe Ryan started 0-4.   Then with a really good season in 2012 won a divisional game and lost in the Conference Championship.  Missed playoffs the next 3 seasons and then rise to win the NFC in 2016.      I can remember the 2014 Bengals waxing that Atlanta team early and reading the message boards afterward and the tone was similar to what we have now.    Matt Ryan isn't this or that.   Mike Smith isn't that or this.

In the NFL I just don't think there is one single formula that can be followed.   I think you need to have gobs of talent and good fortune and when the time comes you have to put your best game on the line each week of the playoffs.

I think the most damaging thing about Lewis is in all playoffs losses, they've never ever played what you could call a good game.  There has never been anything you could attempt to claim a moral victory.   It has to be noted the Falcons made a coaching change from a guy that put together a No. 1 seed season and NFC Runner up (2012 and had 4 playoff appearances).  At some point the Bengals have to cut ties with a guy that's been very successful and risk failure to get to the next level.  

          

 

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A big part of the problem with the QB versus team debate is that the Bengals never really build that elite team around their QB, regardless of his caliber. This is because, at the end of the day, the organization's No.1 goal is cap management.

The Bengals don't participate in free agency to any significant degree. And they annually bleed talent they drafted because they won't pay the going rate ( this is not always for the wrong reasons, but often is). As a result, what you end up with is a team that needs to hit on,say, three straight drafts and make a run before all the cheap rookie contracts expire.

This is mostly what happened in 2015, and it worked brilliantly right up until Andy got hurt (and you might make the same argument about 2005). And then in the offseason, time ran out. Moobs gone, Sanu gone, Jones gone, Reggie gone, Hall gone.Throw in the inevitable injuries (Eifert) and impact of father time (Pacman), and you get where they are. Now even more drafted talent is threatening to bleed out (Zietler, Dre, Burkhead).And there's no sign that the Bengals are preparing to change their ways.

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You have talent.   Then you have the coach of that talent.    Winning a NFL Championship isn't a "take your turn" kinda thing.   The Bengals had the teams worthy in 2013-2015.   They flopped.

Destined to fall by the wayside of many many great NFL teams that never ever won it all or even had an opportunity. 

2017 will be a good indicator of how well the Bengals identify/retain talent.   We'll get to see how well they rebound after missing the playoffs.

IF it works.     YOU STILL HAVE THE SAME COACH! 

 

 

 

 

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