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AMPHAR

Tale of the Tape - 7 sacks!

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Alright the "ALL 22" came out so I looked at the 7 sacks several times from Blimp and End Zone views.    I chose to focus on the 7 sacks because that is clearly the No. 1 critical factor from the win. 

Disclaimer:  I have 0 coaching experience and have never coordinated an offense.   Just 1 football fan take.  So here we go:

Sack 1 - Blame: Gio, The Jets, and maybe Ced.  

5 rushers.   Gio had to come from opposite side to attempt to block blitzing LB (#50), got there late.   That was enough penetration to flush Dalton up into the pocket in which some blocked guys were able to come off the blocks and get the sack.   Ced might have been out of position as he followed #96 on a stunt which Whit picked up and there was no leverage for Z to hold the guy that got the sack.    Good coverage on Boyd the outlet coming across the middle.  Maybe could have forced it in there, maybe not.   Good call by Jets.  Maybe protection error having Gio coming from opposite side trying to pick up blitzing LB.  

Sack 2 - Blame:  AJ Green? Bodine?

Really don't know on this.   It was supposed to be a quick 3rd down throw.   Line sets up quickly.  Dalton stands and stares to his left at AJ Green.   AJ Green is blocking the LB on a pass play.

Have no idea on this.   Clear communication error.  Bodine gave up the pressure but I'm guessing ball was supposed to be out quick

Sack 3 - Blame:  Bodine. 

Play action screen.   Bodine was in set up mode and got driven back, however that's what he's supposed to do on a screen.   He then releases and gives up an easy sack.   I would think given the hard charge by the rusher it would have been better to not release to second level and try to shade the rusher away from Dalton.   Blame Bodine.

Sack 4: -  Blame: Dalton and Ced.

Bengals had a combo route with Green and Hill up top.   Hill cut underneath and was coming open.    Ced got beat on a crossing stunt so Dalton wasn't having any of that and decided to run.   If he would have waited (I think he could) Hill would have had a big gain.    Ced struggled with crossing stunts all day.   D-line were able to get leverage on him.

Sack 5: - Blame: Ced.

Another crossing stunt.   Ced got beat inside.   Nothing Dalton could do.   Everyone covered.

Sack 6: - Blame:  Ced/Zeitler

Another crossing stunt.   Z came off late and the rusher beat him to the inside. 

Sack 7:  Blame: Bodine.   Jets D.

Playaction.   Everyone covered.   No where to go with the ball.   Bodine beat.  

 

Synopsis.     Bengals struggled on the right side with crossing stunts.   Maybe some play calling issues because Jets front 4 were in kill mode.   Screens/Playaction is a gamble.    Bodine got beat too quickly.     Jets had good tight coverage on almost all sacks.    I think you could blame Dalton for 1. 

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Nice write-up, amp. I saw a lot of the same things. Re the right side of the line, I think Ced is going to be a very good tackle eventually, but we aren't close to "eventually" yet. 

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I think it's going to take Ced sometime to get adjusted. I think Zeitler is at a hard spot, trying to help Ced and help Bodine. If Bodine could hold his own, then I don't think we would have as much problems, but he can't. I feel bad for Zeitler, and they need to pay that man!

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Clearly Ced and Z have to work better on switching in pass pro and it appears Ced needs to work on body position and readjusting.   The Jets rushers just had good angles on him to get penetration.     Can't blame Dalton on not having full trust in the RT at this point.

Bodine -    I kinda want to defend him on the play action/screen.   That's clearly his most ugly looking play.   A fan watching on TV just sees him get blown up.   He got blown up but on a screen you are supposed to let them through.   He gave ground too quickly.    Just good play by the Jets. 

Big issue coming up this week is the size of Gio vs. Pitt's LB size.   Gio got ran over a couple times last year in pass pro vs. Steelers.   It was an issue for the Redskins last night.

 

   

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Bend don't break !!

Let's hope they put in some extra work this week and study the tape as Amp has done ....need to address the leakyness

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1 hour ago, Scottishbengal said:

Bend don't break !!

Let's hope they put in some extra work this week and study the tape as Amp has done ....need to address the leakyness

That was quite a bit of bendiness for my taste. Bending and not breaking means staying closer to not bending than to the breaking side. It often looked like they were about to break but ...didn't. Given the results how can we complain. But let's keep it to a stiffer brand of bending, please.

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12 minutes ago, kingwilly said:

Given the results how can we complain. But let's keep it to a stiffer brand of bending, please.

Bottom line is we opened the season on the road against a good defensive team and came out with a win. If we can do the same in Pittsburgh I'll be very happy.

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It seemed to me like the excessive bendiness was mostly due to the difficulties they had stopping the run. Without Burfict and FNR they really struggled. LNR continues to disappoint me, too. 

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It would have been interesting to see how they would have played with Burfict because I'm guessing they played 90%+ of the game in nickel with 2 LBs.   Rey and Dansby.  

It was a poor tackling effort and that is common through out the league in early September.   IMO, that's because they don't practice in training camp anymore.

Watching the game, I thought maybe Dalton was causing some of the sacks.   After watching "all 22",   Dalton is at MVP level.    His performance Sunday was not too different than what Aaron Rodgers has had to do behind a bad pass protecting line.   Just made play after play despite pressure. 

   

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Yeah, Doc slobbered all over Dalton for his performance Sunday. I've never been as down on Dalton as some, and I've always thought the whole "franchise QBs elevate the team around them" line is full of more than a little BS, but it's great to see him get some props for the game. He took some big hits in addition to the sacks, yet just got back up and kept firing. I remember David Klinger getting hammered like that and he looked like a deer in the headlights afterward. Even Palmer would get skittish if he took a couple hits in the years after the knee injury. Dalton was a rock.

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I agree, and since he only missed two throws in the second half underscores this. The Jets have a good D, so that's quite a thing. 

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17 minutes ago, kingwilly said:

I agree, and since he only missed two throws in the second half underscores this. The Jets have a good D, so that's quite a thing. 

That second half performance also greatly calmed my jitters about Zampese. Good adjustments and good call to take the O up-tempo. And while I'm the first one to call for more runs, the fact is the Dalton-to-Green connection was en fuego Sunday and Zamp seemed content to just keep going back to it until the Jets demonstrated they could stop it. Which they couldn't. Having watched Bengals offenses over the years have some success with some aspect of a game early, and then just inexplicably quit doing what worked, that was a welcome change. (Looking at you Jay "well, I figured they would stop it eventually so I quit doing it" Gruden!)

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The O.L. that has been in need to protect Dalton more. And having seven sacks. Really that is no excuse. But hey a win is a win!

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Oh, Hobs, you are an absolute treasure. From Geoff's latest column:

Quote

They know they have to do a better job up the middle with twists because Dalton had absolutely no chance on about four or five of those sacks.  No shot. Buried. No NFL QB has a chance when there’s heavy pressure from the inside like that. Scheme? Personnel? You’d like to say the Jets’ twists inside were an Opening Day wrinkle, but what do you think the Steelers are going to do? They’ve got to get it figured out right now.

Scheme? Personnel?

Scheme? Personnel?

Scheme? Personnel?

Scheme? Personnel?

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Gosh, it really is a giant mystery.  Just how did the Jets generate all that pressure right up the middle?

To crack the case, someone would have to determine somehow, in some way, who is responsible for rushers coming right up the middle of our offensive line.  

Good God, our coaches aren't wizards or seers.  

What allowed all this pressure up the middle?  Scheme?  The weather?  Did a bird fly into Andy's house last week through an open window?  

Hobs is right, hopefully it's just an "opening day wrinkle," whatever the fuck that means.  We'll probably never know though.  Watching guys just flat out trample your center raises so many questions.  It really is a supernatural event, on par with crop circles and other unexplainable phenomenon.  

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Just venting not at anybody on the board.  Mostly things being posted on other Jets/Bengal boards and Mike Greenburg (Jets homer and co-host on Mike and Mike)

 YES,  the Bengals got dominated in pass rush.  It was personnel as the Jets front 4 were better than our 5 and mostly Bodine, Ced, and Z.  They were better head to head and even better running twists and stunts.

However!  That is the only area the Jets dominated.   I would give a slight advantage to the Bengals running the ball.   A great advantage in skill guys vs their back 7.   Also a Bengals big advantage of our back 7 vs. their skill guys.  

The Bengals didn't pound the rock because the Jets don't pursue very well and also Revis isn't Revis anymore.   So the Bengals killed them with virtually Long hand offs in which their corners could not jam because then Dalton would and did go over the top on them.    Bengals o-line, while not as sexy as sacks won the battle cutting off pursuit.

In the run game.   The Bengals didn't have many attempts.   They had 3 bad runs which I have no problem attributing to play calling or scheme.   -8 yards on a reverse in which you direct your C to release and go second level.  (Assumption that wasn't an assignment error on Bodine which it could be) but the guy left free is an All-Pro caliber player and sees the reverse and kills it.    Then last two Hill carries were dumb accumulating in -3 yards.  Basically read/option looks out of Shotgun giving pass reads to the front 7 in which the Jets basically said "fuck it" were aren't concerned about reading the action and just blitzed.   Which of course led to a 3rd down key pass which sealed the FG position and almost went for a First down.

It all goes hand in hand.   No disrespect to the Jets or fans.  It's early in the season and I think they'll be a really good defense and team.   But listening to the post mortem and the up-coming pregame analysts for the Steelers game.   The Bengals got dominated in 1 area and played a close game on the road.   There needs to be some respect paid nationally to Green/Dalton like Ben/Brown get.     Hopefully our guys play their game in Pittsburgh and steal the show with a win.

 

Edit:  The Bengals didn't get a lot of pressure and the Jets have good rushing stats.   IMO,  because the Bengals played nickel all day and elected to swat passes and tight cover WRs on intermediate routes.     This will be a tough dynamic vs. Steelers with a better QB than the Jets with just as good skill guys.    I wouldn't expect a lot of sacks on Ben this week as they will slow rush him to keep him in the pocket.  

 

 

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I don't blame Dalton for sacks "up the middle" that Bodine gave-up in that game.  He was over-matched.  And it's a good point on Zeitler literally having nothing but a revolving-door of crap around him.  (right now Ced is looking like a stupid pick, like Dennard).  Can the Bengals' just starting trading away their 1st rounders like the Patriots? 

I remember the 0-line starting-off horribly last year as well, then getting better about 4-5 weeks in, and being sort of streaky as a unit, depending on their match-up any given week.  In fact that may be the case the last 3 seasons or so (see Hill's amazing 2014 2nd half).

Dalton has to quit being so inconsistent, especially when the pressure's on.  Not sure that ever changes though, at this point.  He is what he is - flawed but gifted.  You live and die with it a lot of times in tight, big games where that stuff is magnified. 

 

 

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The OLine gets this rep now of one of the best in the game but I have not really seen that.  We haven't ran the ball that great except for Hill's big 2nd half like Shula says.  The No Sacks rep comes from a really quick Hue Jackson west-coast throwing scheme.

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I've watched a lot of lines via Game pass.   IMO, Bengals earned their rep as being one of the best.   A lot of teams get the ball out quick because the league has enforced the defensive holding and more cushions are being played.

The Bengals line has earned their bad rep this season.    Every year is a different year.    

There's no relationship between how the Bengals ran the ball in 2014, 2015 and so far 2016.  Just because they protected well in 2015 doesn't mean they played great against the Jets, they sucked.  

Hopefully this isn't a 2008 year for the line in which they were dreadful.    Every year is a different year.

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