Bengals @ Ravens Pregame Chatter/Game Thread

[BengalszoneBilly]

This is the year Billy Bengals vs Cardinals Super Bowl XD

I'd like that, as long as the Bengals won. We could have a preview come week 11.

[Kazkal]

I feel ya army but even if they win one playoff game probably still get ripped on until they atleast make it to afc title game...

Has a quarterbAck been ripped on as much Dalton for only having success in regular season...they also seem ignore facts bengals were limping in to the playoffs last year.

[HoosierCat]

Let them scoff. This team always plays better when Lewis can play the underdog, us vs. the world card. If I were him I would be sending video of that segment to every players iPad.

[redsbengalsbucks]

Another game that should have been an easy win, but the Bengals can't make anything easy.

Good win, now I root for the Ravens to get to 1-3 on thursday.

Dalton played just good enough, IMHO the play calling seemed like Gruden was back. Not a fan of throwing so many times.

[TJJackson]

always glad to get a division win, especially a road win, ugly/pretty/whatever

but

I need to understand where the pass rush disappeared to against a depleted Rvens OL

[redsbengalsbucks]

Ravens board is mostly on fire, calling for Ozzies head or blaming everybody but Flacco.

I thought Flacco played average today, Smith Senior really bailed him out.

Kind of like Green bailed out Dalton.

[ArmyBengal]

Dalton accounted for 4 TD's yesterday. That sack and fumble, which resulted in a Ravens TD was on Eifert getting owned by Dumervil on Dalton's backside.

Yeah Dalton passed more yesterday, but it resulted in a "W". Isn't that exactly what people say he can't do ?? Put a team on his back and get the "W" ??

There are things to get on Dalton for, but yesterday was hardly one of them.

[membengal]

Hoosier - yes - I think we just saw Dalton have "the moment". Been waiting on that from him - and I think it has arrived. Those two drives in the 4th quarter were as good as it gets. He threw Green open on the 80-yarder, and then made four great plays/throws to re-win the game a few minutes later. Keeping the play alive and finding Gio for the 23-yarder to start the winning drive was a play he doesn't usually make (but has been making more of this year - much better pocket awareness) - the throw to Marvin Jones was a perfect, perfect ball and then the decision to change the play and confidently hit AJ for the winner. Those were the kinds of drives and throws that qbs on a different tier from Dalton make (Rodgers, Brady, Roeth, Manning et al). But IF Dalton is making a move to being that kind of presence, then the sky is the limit for this team.

[skyline]

Kind of like Green bailed out Dalton.

Laughable.

Dalton accounted for 4 TD's yesterday. That sack and fumble, which resulted in a Ravens TD was on Eifert getting owned by Dumervil on Dalton's backside.

Yeah Dalton passed more yesterday, but it resulted in a "W". Isn't that exactly what people say he can't do ?? Put a team on his back and get the "W" ??

There are things to get on Dalton for, but yesterday was hardly one of them.

Yep. Any time a QB puts the team on their back and pulls them to a victory, there is (by definition) a receiver that has to play their part. Dalton read the D, and put his passes in exactly the right spot. I mean, come on...his TD passes yesterday were absolute money. All three of them. The pass to Marvin Jones was beautiful.

And, on the controversial 4th and 1 play, he did a fantastic job of keeping the play alive and finding Eifert.

I really wish we had the INT back, but to be honest I hated that play call more than the 4th and 1. I hate that play as a rule...feels like a wasted down more often than not. But on 3rd and 3 my hatred of that play turns into full blown rage.

[HoosierCat]

Hoosier - yes - I think we just saw Dalton have "the moment". Been waiting on that from him - and I think it has arrived. Those two drives in the 4th quarter were as good as it gets. He threw Green open on the 80-yarder, and then made four great plays/throws to re-win the game a few minutes later. Keeping the play alive and finding Gio for the 23-yarder to start the winning drive was a play he doesn't usually make (but has been making more of this year - much better pocket awareness) - the throw to Marvin Jones was a perfect, perfect ball and then the decision to change the play and confidently hit AJ for the winner. Those were the kinds of drives and throws that qbs on a different tier from Dalton make (Rodgers, Brady, Roeth, Manning et al). But IF Dalton is making a move to being that kind of presence, then the sky is the limit for this team.

Agreed. We've seen false dawns before but I have to say, after the sack-fumble-TD I though the game was over. I would have bet my house that there was no way they'd come back, much less come back not once but twice. It's hard to shake the feeling we saw something special happen, and like you say if we did, the sky's the limit.

[BengalszoneBilly]

This from the Baltimore Sun. They had mad props for A.J. Green...

[redsbengalsbucks]

Kind of like Green bailed out Dalton.

Laughable.

Dalton accounted for 4 TD's yesterday. That sack and fumble, which resulted in a Ravens TD was on Eifert getting owned by Dumervil on Dalton's backside.

Yeah Dalton passed more yesterday, but it resulted in a "W". Isn't that exactly what people say he can't do ?? Put a team on his back and get the "W" ??

There are things to get on Dalton for, but yesterday was hardly one of them.

Yep. Any time a QB puts the team on their back and pulls them to a victory, there is (by definition) a receiver that has to play their part. Dalton read the D, and put his passes in exactly the right spot. I mean, come on...his TD passes yesterday were absolute money. All three of them. The pass to Marvin Jones was beautiful.

And, on the controversial 4th and 1 play, he did a fantastic job of keeping the play alive and finding Eifert.

I really wish we had the INT back, but to be honest I hated that play call more than the 4th and 1. I hate that play as a rule...feels like a wasted down more often than not. But on 3rd and 3 my hatred of that play turns into full blown rage.

Hey, I was not trying to put down Dalton. Flacco is being hailed as the only player worth a damn on the Ravens board and he got no help. (that is laughable) I was just pointing out that both QB's had a very big assist from the top WR's on both teams. Do you really think that Dalton wins this game with Green on the bench? He has to throw that INT away and take the 3 points, other than that he was clutch yesterday.

As I have repeatedly stated on this board he is a very good QB, he just needs help in the big games from the D and his skill players. None of which have ever happened in the paly-offs.

[HoosierCat]

The game gets the Any Given Sunday treatment from football outsiders.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/any-given-sunday/2015/any-given-sunday-bengals-over-ravens

Lots of good stuff, especially the detailed look at Dalton under pressure:

Point 1: Dalton's failures against pressure depend on how you define it.

According to ESPN Stats and Info (whom we thank for sharing their data), Dalton this year has continued to be terrible under pressure. Their numbers have Dalton posting a 0.5 QBR with pressure (4-for-12, 42 yards, 2 sacks, 1 scramble), compared to a 92.7 QBR without pressure. All quarterbacks do better without pressure, but since QBR only goes from 0 to 100, it is hard to have a much bigger difference than that. And if the numbers are based on just three games, it fits Dalton's pattern from previous seasons, too. That sounds pretty bad, bad enough that where playoff football is involved, you might ding the bell and dismiss the Red Rifle with "Thank you for playing, Mr. Dalton." But let's look a little deeper.

The ESPN charting information is using a strict definition of pressure. On those plays where Dalton is getting pressured heavily, he has mostly been even more atrocious than most quarterbacks. But many times on Sunday, Dalton made great throws when he was not knocked down, but he was under some smaller amount of duress that did not make the cut as being under pressure according to the charting stats. The 80-yard touchdown was just one example. In the third quarter, he threw Green open on a 47-yard play where Daryl Smith made contact with his arm on the follow-through. Green got credit for making a great adjustment, but Dalton's decision and throw there deserve just as much credit.

Point 2: Dalton changed how he played under pressure last year.

FO alumni Doug Farrar and Bill Barnwell both wrote articles exploring Dalton's struggles under pressure before last season. In short, Dalton performed very poorly under pressure in his first three seasons. As Farrar described, Dalton had a -114.7% DVOA under pressure in 2013 and a 27.4% DVOA without pressure. The Bengals averaged 7.9 yards per play when Dalton was pressured and just 1.2 when he was not, per our charting data.

At first glance, it looks like Dalton was just bad again under pressure last season. He posted a -69.0% DVOA when pressured and a 20.3% DVOA without pressure. But most of Dalton's poor DVOA under pressure last year was driven by interceptions. The Bengals actually averaged more yards per play last year when he was pressured than when he was not.

Andy Dalton, With and Without Pressure, 2014

Dropbacks DVOA Yards Per Play INT%

Pressure 75 -69.0% 7.4 8.0%

No Pressure 432 20.7% 6.5 2.5%

What this means going forward is not entirely clear. The optimist would say that Dalton could have gotten unlucky on a couple of those interceptions and the bigger sample with more yards per play is more informative. The pessimist would say "same old Dalton under pressure" in terms of overall efficiency.

For a Bengals fan, maybe it's reassuring just to know that not everything has stayed the same from year to year in the Dalton era.

Point 3: Dalton actually performed better last season against the blitz than when opponents sent four or fewer pass rushers.

If it's true that the blitz destroys Andy Dalton, then the biggest problem is that the Bengals should be very easy to defend, particularly for the better defenses that keep popping up in the playoffs. But, just as he often did on Sunday, Dalton has been succeeding against the blitz in a larger sample for some time.

Andy Dalton vs. Blitzes, 2014

Dropbacks DVOA Yards Per Play INT%

Blitz 154 17.0% 8.3 5.2%

No Blitz 353 2.4% 5.8 2.5%

None of this is meant to give Dalton all the credit for the Bengals' recent success against the blitz, success that continued against the Ravens. But whatever the reason, teams cannot simply blitz the Bengals into submission. And so there is reason to think that, with a healthy A.J. Green and with a potentially different Dalton, this time really could be different for the Bengals.