Free Agency

[ArmyBengal]

Yeah, I don't get Vinny Rey. All he did when given an opportunity is play better than the guy he replaced.

His reward for the effort ?? Sent back to the bench and then tendered at the lowest level.

If I were him, I would want to leave.

I like Hawkins and would like to see him back as well.

Then again, there may be something else we simply aren't aware of.

[Walrus]

Yeah, I don't get Vinny Rey. All he did when given an opportunity is play better than the guy he replaced.

His reward for the effort ?? Sent back to the bench and then tendered at the lowest level.

If I were him, I would want to leave.

I like Hawkins and would like to see him back as well.

Then again, there may be something else we simply aren't aware of.

Maybe I don't understand the rules, but in thinking about this a little more it seems like Mikey is doing the players a favor by approaching it this way. In offering the minimum tender, they now have the opportunity to court offers from teams who will offer them market value for their services - and likely a better shot at starting - without being scared off by the additional burden of 1st or 2nd round compensation to the Bengals. Plus the Bengals retain the opportunity to simply match said market value and keep the player. Do I have it right so far?

Also, I think the loss of of tendered RFA's figures into the team's comp picks next year, right?

[Scottishbengal]

thinking about this a little more it seems like Mikey is doing the players a favor by approaching it this way. In offering the minimum tender, they now have the opportunity to court offers from teams who will offer them market value for their services - and likely a better shot at starting - without being scared off by the additional burden of 1st or 2nd round compensation to the Bengals. Plus the Bengals retain the opportunity to simply match said market value and keep the player. Do I have it right so far?

This is exactly how I see it ... hats off to MB rather than a kick in the 'nads

[HoosierCat]

Maybe I don't understand the rules, but in thinking about this a little more it seems like Mikey is doing the players a favor by approaching it this way.

Maybe I don't understand how to be a GM, but it seems to me your first interest ought to be keeping your team as talented as possible, not doing players favors.

I don't mind losing Sanzenbacher, but if Rey or Hawk walk, the team loses talent and it opens instead of closes holes ahead of the draft.

Hopefully it doesn't happen, but there's a lot of money and cap space out there this year and teams are under pressure to spend to meet the CBA mandate. With the Bengals apparently still cowering before the Cruel God of 2014, I don't think it would take much for a team to snatch them away.

[ArmyBengal]

Yeah, the Bengals can match, but how can they compete with a front loaded contract and tons of guaranteed money from a team with bunches of cap space the Bengals couldn't possibly match ?? How is that helping the team ?? Stop doing favors and ensure the integrity of your depth.

[TJJackson]

In that scenario, Army, the team benefits in the form of

1) They dont have to pay the player they lose 1.4 mil, which is kinda high for a backup, and they can use that money for other purposes

I can say with certainty I dont want to pay an Inactive Sanzenbacher 1.4 million :-)

2) The higher said lost player's contract is with the new team, the higher the compensatory pick in the next year they will receive in return.

It is a bit of a gamble but the right to match is still a HUGE advantage when you have cap to play with, which the Bengals certainly do.

Am I claiming these benefits are worth the loss of the player? Possibly not. In the case of losing one of the two WRs, I'd argue that we are receiver heavy, with Cobi in the wings awaiting his shot, and so losing one of them makes some sense.

I love Babyhawk, but of the three, the one I really dont want to lose is Rey. I think the Bengals are gambling that he will be seen as mainly a special teamer and otherwise a product of the Zim defense, and not therefore worth even the 1.4 million the Bengals have already committed to with the tender, and they'd almsot certainly have to pay more than that tender to get Rey signed

[HoosierCat]

Miami is rumored to have AC on its short list of FA tackles to pursue. They would prefer Monroe or Albert, though.

Given the train wreck in the Miami locker room last year, it's tough to see Monroe or Albert there. They will have other suitors. AC probably too, but Miami could get desperate and throw a wad of cash at him.

[kingwilly]

Miami is rumored to have AC on its short list of FA tackles to pursue. They would prefer Monroe or Albert, though.

Given the train wreck in the Miami locker room last year, it's tough to see Monroe or Albert there. They will have other suitors. AC probably too, but Miami could get desperate and throw a wad of cash at him.

I noted this in another thread that Miami is where he will end up if he is not re-signed. They are in bad shape and I think AC is probably the best value of all the FA OT's, and also in the top 3 or 4 in ability. What's not to like about Anthony Collins? I just don't get it. Media can downgrade him for lack of starts but I think that's just silly. He sat behind Whit and Fat Andre, two very very good tackles. He's been a patient and loyal teammate. I can also recall him generally being the first guy into the endzone to find the player who scored and be there to celebrate/congratulate.

Edit to add:

the lowest tender being placed on Sanzenbackup and Baby Hawk indicates they could be looking WR in the draft. Dangling them out there with no compensation says they have a probable contingency plan.

[Kazkal]

Let's be real if were gonna get any talented player its gonna be someone like Browner CB.

[HoosierCat]

Oh, I have no doubt they have a plan, willy. It's the same plan they use every year: sit on their hands at FA's opening bell, wait for "the market to come to them" and draft a replacement if it doesn't.

The tight cap has helped them the last couple of years, especially last year with Moobs. But the last-minute catapult in cap space this year may bite them in the butt. MJ is almost certainly gone. I had hopes for AC but they have fallen as the cap has risen. I don't think it will take a big deal for them to let go of Vinny; something it the $3-4 million/year range would probably do it. That's what they're paying First Name Rey and I doubt they pay that for his backup. As for Hawkins...I don't know. But I would hate to see yet more WR churn.

We'll see.

[TJJackson]

probable contingency plan.

Cobi Hamilton

[kingwilly]

Oh, I have no doubt they have a plan, willy. It's the same plan they use every year: sit on their hands at FA's opening bell, wait for "the market to come to them" and draft a replacement if it doesn't.

The tight cap has helped them the last couple of years, especially last year with Moobs. But the last-minute catapult in cap space this year may bite them in the butt. MJ is almost certainly gone. I had hopes for AC but they have fallen as the cap has risen. I don't think it will take a big deal for them to let go of Vinny; something it the $3-4 million/year range would probably do it. That's what they're paying First Name Rey and I doubt they pay that for his backup. As for Hawkins...I don't know. But I would hate to see yet more WR churn.

We'll see.

While Vinny played amazingly well, that they tendered him as the first step is a lame move. He played at starter level, should be easy to justify him being re-signed at adequate value. They do have a really deep LB group but with so many coming back from season ending injuries having him in the fold makes good sense. If I am GM on a LB starved team, like the Giants, Cowboys or Falcons, I'd make a run at Vinny and start him right away.

Hawkins may just be a casualty of the shift to running quite a bit more. Consider Green, Sanu and Jones above him on the chart, and Greesham and Eifert looing to catch more balls, he might not have a clear role for the price he'd be looking for. For Hawk, I'd be looking at places like NE, Jets, AZ or Oakland to get more snaps and looks.

[ArmyBengal]

There's this thing called continuity I heard is a positive thing to have.

Last name Rey may not be a starter here, but he should be. The player to let go is first name Rey.

Not worried about the WR's, but Hawkins is solid for the offense if he's back to being healthy.

If the Bengals lose AC, it's their own fault unless he simply doesn't want to be here.

I've never heard anything to suggest that however. They have the money to get it done.

Show the man some love and take care of Dalton and the rest of the o-line.

Letting him walk means instability with the o-line and another need to be addressed sooner in the draft.

[TJJackson]

There's this thing called continuity I heard is a positive thing to have.

Let the passive=aggressive thing go - :-) - I agree, dude

Last name Rey may not be a starter here, but he should be. The player to let go is first name Rey.

Agreed again, but we both know Firstname Rey is seen - for whatever bizarre reason neither of us can fathom - as the starter.

As I have said elsewhere, the most important RFA to retain of the three is IMHO Lastname Rey

[ArmyBengal]

Let the passive=aggressive thing go - :-) - I agree, dude

Sorry brother, wasn't trying to go there. Poor attempt at humor ??

Yeah, I don't know what it will take for them to make a move at MLB.

All last name Rey did when given a chance, is outplay first name Rey by a wide margin.

Grrr and sh*t...

[HoosierCat]

I see this a.m. that D'Quell Jackson signed with the Colts, four years, $22 million, $11 million guaranteed. For this guy:

Age: 30 (31 in September)

2013 snaps: 1,246 (1,147 on D)

Tackles: 141

Sacks: 1.5

INT: 1

FF: 1

PD: 7

You know where I'm going, right? Vinny:

Age: 26 (27 in September)

2013 snaps 677 (342 on D)

Tackles: 57

Sacks: 4

INT: 2 (1 pick 6)

FF: 1

PD: 5

Strictly from a productivity standpoint, Vinny blew Jackson away last year. Now, you can certainly argue that Jackson has a much longer track record and Rey has a lot left to prove, but this is exactly the kind of young on-the-come player teams will take a chance on in FA (remember what Frostee got from Cleveland?).

Man I hope I'm wrong...

[Scottishbengal]

I see this a.m. that D'Quell Jackson signed with the Colts, four years, $22 million, $11 million guaranteed. For this guy:

Age: 30 (31 in September)

2013 snaps: 1,246 (1,147 on D)

Tackles: 141

Vinny:

Age: 26 (27 in September)

2013 snaps 677 (342 on D)

Tackles: 57

Just playing devils advocate and not wanting to get into a slanging match but when you split the figures down this way you can see where the Bengals Front Office is coming from ... i suppose a glass half full/half empty viewpoint

do I like Vinny Rey = yeah,

do I want Vinny to stay a Bengal = yeah,

do I think Vinny is going to take over Malaluga as starter = no,

do I think Vinny is worth $5.1/2million per year as a back-up......hmmmmmm lets see what the market says

[ArmyBengal]

If last name Rey comes back to the Bengals, I would be very surprised.

This is what I was talking about when I mentioned teams with a ton of cap dollars to spend can make it impossible for the Bengals to match.

Knowing they won't get any compensation if he is signed away just seems stupid on the part of the Bengals.

You can "like" a player all you want, but that just doesn't pass the common sense test to me.

[HoosierCat]

I see this a.m. that D'Quell Jackson signed with the Colts, four years, $22 million, $11 million guaranteed. For this guy:

Age: 30 (31 in September)

2013 snaps: 1,246 (1,147 on D)

Tackles: 141

Vinny:

Age: 26 (27 in September)

2013 snaps 677 (342 on D)

Tackles: 57

Just playing devils advocate and not wanting to get into a slanging match but when you split the figures down this way you can see where the Bengals Front Office is coming from ... i suppose a glass half full/half empty viewpoint

do I like Vinny Rey = yeah,

do I want Vinny to stay a Bengal = yeah,

do I think Vinny is going to take over Malaluga as starter = no,

do I think Vinny is worth $5.1/2million per year as a back-up......hmmmmmm lets see what the market says

No slanging matches, I promise. I wouldn't think Vinny gets $5.5 million either, at least not in Cincy; he would be making a couple million more than First Name Rey in that case. As for First Name v. Last Name as the starting MLB, all I can say is a lot of people, including me, thought he outplayed Maualuga when given the opportunity last season.

As for the tackle numbers, I actually think they reflect very favorably on Rey. Jackson's numbers work out to about 1 tackle every 9 snaps. Vinny got 1 tackle about every 12 snaps. But almost half of Rey's snaps were teams snaps, while 90% of D'Quell's were on defense. That's a lot of production for Rey.

[blueridge]

I see this a.m. that D'Quell Jackson signed with the Colts, four years, $22 million, $11 million guaranteed. For this guy:

Age: 30 (31 in September)

2013 snaps: 1,246 (1,147 on D)

Tackles: 141

Sacks: 1.5

INT: 1

FF: 1

PD: 7

You know where I'm going, right? Vinny:

Age: 26 (27 in September)

2013 snaps 677 (342 on D)

Tackles: 57

Sacks: 4

INT: 2 (1 pick 6)

FF: 1

PD: 5

Strictly from a productivity standpoint, Vinny blew Jackson away last year. Now, you can certainly argue that Jackson has a much longer track record and Rey has a lot left to prove, but this is exactly the kind of young on-the-come player teams will take a chance on in FA (remember what Frostee got from Cleveland?).

Man I hope I'm wrong...

This is laughable. Rey is a special teamer who has had a couple of good games playing on defense. Jackson is an established and productive starting ILB in this league. The way some of you overvalue Vinny Rey is just amusing. I know the Bengals have a better insight into his value than do the people who post on this message board.

[TJJackson]

they won't get any compensation if he is signed

dont forget about comp picks in 2015

the higher the contract from the team that gets him, the higher the comp pick

[ArmyBengal]

they won't get any compensation if he is signed

dont forget about comp picks in 2015

the higher the contract from the team that gets him, the higher the comp pick

Well, there's always that.

[TJJackson]

they won't get any compensation if he is signed

dont forget about comp picks in 2015

the higher the contract from the team that gets him, the higher the comp pick

Well, there's always that.

Tom Brady was a compensatory pick

[HoosierCat]

BIG NEWZ!!!!

Mike Pollack signed.

/>http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Bengals-exerting-homegrown-policy/bbe5b45c-26a1-4e00-8045-b088354d8fa4

That's it folks, we're done, cap space zero, see you in September!

[ArmyBengal]

Pollak is a good signing from a depth perspective.

Can play both OG and Center.

He knows he's not a starter at this point, but he's better than average depth.

I like that he's coming back.