Andy Dalton Holding Back Would-Be Contender

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Pretty much...

Though the Bengals spent high draft picks last April on a halfback (Giovani Bernard) and tight end (Tyler Eifert) to complement star wideout A.J. Green and give Dalton additional firepower, Dalton's not showing signs of developing into anything more than a decent quarterback. And it isn't just a matter of putting forth underwhelming performances in games: Sources say Dalton also routinely produces uneven efforts on the practice field and that coaches, rather than admonishing him to improve, tend to offer primarily positive reinforcement.

If so, they're in denial. Kubiak might be, as well.

Most people who watched Schaub and Dalton play on this particular Sunday, however, received a cold, hard dose of reality.

Schaub, Dalton Holding Back Would-Be Contenders

[skyline]

It'll be interesting to see how it pans out.

It's really too early to be having this conversation, though. Let's see what things look like at the end of the year.

[ArmyBengal]

I know I got on Dalton after the Browns game (still think it was deserving) but it's not a condemnation of him as a whole.

I still think he has all the tools to be a very good QB in this league. He just needs to find that consistency and improve.

I still don't think it would be a poor decision to bring in Josh Freeman as a backup if he wanted to come here.

Light the fire for Andy and if he performs, great. If not, I think you could do worse than him.

It's not like we are going to be in a position to draft a highly rated QB.

At least I don't think so.

[blueridge]

Oh my god! The coaches are providing Dalton with "primarily positive reinforcement". How dare they. I'm really glad Mike Silver is on the case.

[Kazkal]

Who would put Brees as a top 3 QB when he was playin for the chargers? Sometimes takes time for players develop still early in the season.

[HoosierCat]

Big Willie to Shula: eat my fatburger

/>http://blogs.bengals.com/2013/10/03/big-willie-comes-to-daltons-defense/

[volcom69]

This is what happens to QBs when the focus is all on them, when the truth is it should be on the whole team. I have seen Dalton have some great games only to be ruined by guys dropping the ball, fumbling the ball away, running the wrong routes, o-line failing to protect him. I have also seen a defense this year who I thought was going to be dominant, look not as good. The problem is this whole team is so in consistant and it's been this way under Marvin for too long now.

Dalton has his problems, but he is not the only problem on this team. For years all I wanted was for this team to make the playoffs, Andy gave us hope the last two years. I don't know what this year will bring, but I'm just hoping for the best.

[COB]

Big Willie to Shula: eat my fatburger ;)/>

/>http://blogs.bengals.com/2013/10/03/big-willie-comes-to-daltons-defense/

Good read from Big Willie, and a different perspective, that's for sure.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

It's the denial that bugs me.

[Sea Ray]

Another article labeling Dalton as the weak link on a strong Bengals team is not news. There's no question the monkey's on Dalton's back to prove them wrong. Until he does, we've got to expect this stuff. Truth be told, none of us knows if Dalton can win us big games. I'll say this: 2013 is Dalton's year to put up or welook for a replacement. Personally I'd like to see what our opponent's backup (Mallet)can do in our offense

[COB]

Stayed up last night and watched Geno Smith deliver a game winning drive with under two minutes left in the game. My wife was like, "What are you crying for?" Me - "Nothing, something's in my eye."

[HoosierCat]

Geno put on a clinic last night. Of course, it didn't hurt that the Falcons defense basically took the night off.

Jay Gruden could learn a lot from that game about playcalling balance and how to use a big TE. It was all short passing too, a very WCO game.

One thing I did notice was the Jets receivers ran very crisp routes and did an excellent job finding the soft spots in the zone. And Smith did not hesitate to fire the ball to them. In fact as the game went on it looked like he was growing in confidence as they consistently were where they were supposed to be and throwing with greater anticipation as a result.

That is something I don't see consistently with the Bengals. Maybe it's the coverage teams play against us or the routes we commonly run, I dunno. But every completion Dalton makes seems like pulling teeth.

[volcom69]

Stayed up last night and watched Geno Smith deliver a game winning drive with under two minutes left in the game. My wife was like, "What are you crying for?" Me - "Nothing, something's in my eye."

Yea and did you see the game before he played this one? He had 4 turnovers 2 picks and 2 fumbles, he had 8 picks overall. It was a great game, but it just goes to show how a guy can be great one game, and horrible the next.

I agree with Hoosier Gruden could learn a lot from that game. I still want to see Andy scramble a little more then he has.

[princeton]

I'm no Dalton cheerleader, but Atlanta pass rush and safeties were horrendous, and made Geno look like a hall of famer. too bad they were only a preseason matchup for the Bengals

[HoosierCat]

And just to add injury to insult, reports out now that Atlanta just lost Julio Jones for the season to a foot injury. Ouch.

[COB]

Geno Smith was my main wish in the draft last year. I knew it was unrealistic, as Jay Gruden seemed to be married to Andy (until last week, when he openly crapped all over him in the press), but I was wishing we could get Geno.

So far he has 3 game winning drives. He also has something like 11 turnovers. Basically, his ceiling is a lot higher than Andy's, and if he develops he could win a Super Bowl. I don't think Dalton ever will be good enough to win a Super Bowl.

[Kazkal]

Geno Smith was my main wish in the draft last year. I knew it was unrealistic, as Jay Gruden seemed to be married to Andy (until last week, when he openly crapped all over him in the press), but I was wishing we could get Geno.

So far he has 3 game winning drives. He also has something like 11 turnovers. Basically, his ceiling is a lot higher than Andy's, and if he develops he could win a Super Bowl. I don't think Dalton ever will be good enough to win a Super Bowl.

Trent Difler & Brad Johnson weren't good enough to win a superbowl but the Buccaneers & Ravens defense were.

[Wraith]

Submitted for your enjoyment

Tom Brady's first three years as a starter.

2003 New England Patriots

16 527 317 60.2 32.9 3,620 6.9 226.2 23 4.4 12 2.3 82T 44 8 32 219 85.9

2002 New England Patriots

16 601 373 62.1 37.6 3,764 6.3 235.2 28 4.7 14 2.3 49T 37 3 31 190 85.7

2001 New England Patriots

15 413 264 63.9 27.5 2,843 6.9 189.5 18 4.4 12 2.9 91T 32 6 41 216 86.5

Andy Dalton's first three years as a starter.

2013 Cincinnati Bengals

5 175 114 65.1 35.0 1,215 6.9 243.0 5 2.9 5 2.9 61 16 3 11 61 82.9

2012 Cincinnati Bengals

16 528 329 62.3 33.0 3,669 6.9 229.3 27 5.1 16 3.0 59T 37 12 46 229 87.4

2011 Cincinnati Bengals

16 516 300 58.1 32.2 3,398 6.6 212.4 20 3.9 13 2.5 84 48 10 24 160 80.4

Pretty similar Andy has thrown a few more INTs....For full disclosure, I thought Brady was a totally overrated QB until the 2005 season....Andy is still a young QB get off his back please.

[HoosierCat]

For all the complaints about Andy and Jay, nice work featured here:

/>http://mmqb.si.com/2013/10/08/bengals-packers-broncos-colts-week-5-decisive-moments/

[HoosierCat]

After reviewing the film, one Boston sportswriter says Andy was excellent.

/>http://www.bostonglobe.com/sports/2013/10/08/tom-brady-was-thrown-off-his-game-cincinnati/awJRUaXwwCXBWo1VKBrTcL/story.html

[ArmyBengal]

This is going back to the pre-draft analysis of Dalton:

Overview

Dalton is four-year starter and proven winner, but he will have a difficult transition to the NFL. He is undersized and will not be able to take off and run at the next level. He is generally an accurate passer, however he will make some poor throws when his mechanics break down. Also, he plays in a very user friendly scheme where he throws to a lot of wide open receivers and it is unclear if he can fit the ball into tight windows. Dalton will need some time to learn a more complicated offense and he looks to be a mid-round pick.

Strengths

Dalton is a well prepared player that scans the whole field and makes solid decisions. Has a quick release, a strong arm and is an accurate passer, especially on the run. Has great mobility in the pocket and shows very good instincts as a runner. Extremely productive collegiate career.

Weaknesses

On the shorter side and has a three-quarter delivery which will likely result in a lot of batted passes. Deeper throws will float at times when he does not set his feet. Played in a spread offense and will have to learn a pro style system. Does not always feel pressure in the pocket which nullifies his good mobility.
/>http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/andrew-dalton?id=2495143

I found some of that kind of interesting in that there has been much talk of the batted passes, his mechanics, and his running ability.

I also found it interesting how they said he has a strong arm, but that deeper throws float.

I think some of that can be corrected as well. I need to remember to be patient as I still think he will get better.

That Cleveland game just really irked me.

[HoosierCat]

The Cleveland game irked everyone, as it should have. Andy was terrible, and his poor performance was compounded by Jay Gruden's brain apparently completely shutting down for three hours. He ought to have been pulled in Q3. I would have sat him down, told him he was still the starter and would be out there next week against the Pats, but we have to make a change because for whatever reason you just don't have it today. No different from Cueto in the playoff game. However by his own admission Jay was so brain dead he couldn't call a time out even when he saw a crucial play going south.

All that said, both Dalton and Gruden bounced back last week. And while Andy isn't Peyton Manning or Drew Brees, there are half a dozen teams I can think of who would love to have him right now, starting with our opponents this Sunday. And there's at least as many allegedly good/great/elite QBs out there right now who I wouldn't take over Dalton if you paid me.

[ArmyBengal]

The Cleveland game irked everyone, as it should have. Andy was terrible, and his poor performance was compounded by Jay Gruden's brain apparently completely shutting down for three hours. He ought to have been pulled in Q3. I would have sat him down, told him he was still the starter and would be out there next week against the Pats, but we have to make a change because for whatever reason you just don't have it today. No different from Cueto in the playoff game. However by his own admission Jay was so brain dead he couldn't call a time out even when he saw a crucial play going south.

All that said, both Dalton and Gruden bounced back last week. And while Andy isn't Peyton Manning or Drew Brees, there are half a dozen teams I can think of who would love to have him right now, starting with our opponents this Sunday. And there's at least as many allegedly good/great/elite QBs out there right now who I wouldn't take over Dalton if you paid me.

I agree with this Hoosier.

[COB]

Even after the win against the Patriots, Jay did some piling on. This may not seem significant to some, but I see a very different thing going on here than previously. Talking about Andy's wonderlik score and his grades in college? A complete CYA move to justify the pick and cover your own ass in the face of what must be some heat within the organization over the performance of Jay's handpicked QB.

I don't like it. I don't like Jay trying to distance himself from Andy's performance. And I don't like the assumption on Jay's part that he has to distance himself from the stumbles. It's part of football, you take a chance on a 2nd rounder and see how it goes.

“It wasn’t very smart,” offensive coordinator Jay Gruden said. “This guy almost got a perfect grade on his Wonderlic (pre-draft test) and straight A’s (in college), then goes and does something really stupid like that. It makes us all look bad.”

“We’re still trying to get him going, and he’s playing solid football,” Gruden said. “But some games he’s going to have to play great. Right now, he’s playing good, but there are always like five or six plays where you go, ‘Andy!’

We Heard He Was Smarter Than This

[HoosierCat]

Even after the win against the Patriots, Jay did some piling on. This may not seem significant to some, but I see a very different thing going on here than previously. Talking about Andy's wonderlik score and his grades in college? A complete CYA move to justify the pick and cover your own ass in the face of what must be some heat within the organization over the performance of Jay's handpicked QB.

I don't like it. I don't like Jay trying to distance himself from Andy's performance. And I don't like the assumption on Jay's part that he has to distance himself from the stumbles. It's part of football, you take a chance on a 2nd rounder and see how it goes.

“It wasn’t very smart,” offensive coordinator Jay Gruden said. “This guy almost got a perfect grade on his Wonderlic (pre-draft test) and straight A’s (in college), then goes and does something really stupid like that. It makes us all look bad.”

“We’re still trying to get him going, and he’s playing solid football,” Gruden said. “But some games he’s going to have to play great. Right now, he’s playing good, but there are always like five or six plays where you go, ‘Andy!’

We Heard He Was Smarter Than This

It's worth keeping an eye on. I wonder how much having Hue Jackson lurking in the background is affecting Jay. I keep going back to that segment when they were deciding whether to cut Connor or Charles. Jay recently said that the O didn't have an identity, but that day Hue seemed pretty sure who they were, and used it as leverage to get his way.

That was just a little peek behind the curtain and my perception could just reflect how it was edited by HBO, I don't know. But Hue is a former HC, a guy who made his bones on offense...and a Friend of Marv.