penn st

[Sea Ray]

Just read in the Columbus Dispatch that the NCAA president said the death penalty for Penn State football is not off the table. He also said he had, “never seen anything as egregious as this in terms of just overall conduct and behavior inside a university." That just doesn't sound too good for Penn State.

Not Bill James Talking

He's not saying a thing. Wake me up when he does rule something out

[derekshank]

If Penn State doesn't get the death penalty, it is impossible to get.

I'd be ok with a 2 year penalty... but if it is only 2 years, Penn State will be thinking about who the coaching staff will be and things of that nature when the ban is lifted. I think it needs to be 5 years, because that would give them a couple of years where football isn't even on the radar. And that is what needs to happen.

I don't want them to get this penalty because of some sort of righteous retribution... but I think it is obvious that the culture at Penn State got so wrapped up in football, that things that are really important got lost. That will take time to heal from.

As a Buckeye fan, it is hard for me to imagine what my thought process would be if this happened in Columbus - but I can't imagine trying to watch football next month pretending like things were back to normal. It is just too f**ked up to pretend that it never happened and cheer for my football team. Penn State needs a break from football for a while to allow them to reevaluate their priorities.

[redsbengalsbucks]

I dont see the big uproar over a coach that was fired years ago when PSU found out about the first allegation. An investigation by the campus and state police found no criminal wrong doing then. The problem arises when that same person is still allowed access to usually restricted areas of the facility. I just dont see the death penalty for this. If your talking about getting the culture shifted from being focused on football too much, than any NCAA sanctions should do just fine. A bowl ban for a few years and some scholarship reduction is fine with me.

In my opinion the JoePa statue should stay, he is not the pedaphile. He was one of the greatest coaches in the history of the game and gave back more to his community than almost any other head coach ever. Some of the uproar about the statue seems to be sour grapes to me. I wish JoePa was still around to defend himself, degrading a dead man with no proof, is just wrong.

[derekshank]

I wish JoePa was still around to defend himself, degrading a dead man with no proof, is just wrong.

Did you read the Freeh report?

As COB mentioned:

The email trail is convincing and irrefutable. The authorities at Penn State planned to turn Sandusky in to the police. Then one of them had a meeting with Joe Paterno. Then, based on feedback from Joe at that meeting, they changed their minds and didn't report it.

Case f**king closed.

Freeh is unbiased and was hired by the University... so he has no axe to grind. And he specifically mentions Paterno throughout his report as one of the main reasons that the University "failed to protect against a child sexual predator harming children for over a decade."

He specifically states in the report:

In order to avoid the consequences of bad publicity, the most powerful leaders at the university -- Spanier, Schultz, Paterno and Curley -- repeatedly concealed critical facts relating to Sandusky's child abuse.

Additionally he mentions the janitors who witnessed Sandusky raping a child, but were afraid to report it, saying:

"He's a Korean War veteran. … He spoke to the other janitors. They were awed and shocked by it. But, what did they do? They said they can't report this because they'd be fired. They were afraid to take on the football program. They said the university would circle around it. It was like going against the president of United States. If that's the culture on the bottom, God help the culture at the top."

Meanwhile, Mike McQueary was sending recruiting letters like this after other NCAA scandals:

Paterno was more interested in his legacy, recruiting, and breaking the all-time wins record than he was about bringing a child sexual predator to light.

Paterno was a scumbag.

[BengalszoneBilly]

I wish JoePa was still around to defend himself, degrading a dead man with no proof, is just wrong.

Did you read the Freeh report?

As COB mentioned:

The email trail is convincing and irrefutable. The authorities at Penn State planned to turn Sandusky in to the police. Then one of them had a meeting with Joe Paterno. Then, based on feedback from Joe at that meeting, they changed their minds and didn't report it.

Case f**king closed.

Freeh is unbiased and was hired by the University... so he has no axe to grind. And he specifically mentions Paterno throughout his report as one of the main reasons that the University "failed to protect against a child sexual predator harming children for over a decade."

He specifically states in the report:

In order to avoid the consequences of bad publicity, the most powerful leaders at the university -- Spanier, Schultz, Paterno and Curley -- repeatedly concealed critical facts relating to Sandusky's child abuse.

Additionally he mentions the janitors who witnessed Sandusky raping a child, but were afraid to report it, saying:

"He's a Korean War veteran. … He spoke to the other janitors. They were awed and shocked by it. But, what did they do? They said they can't report this because they'd be fired. They were afraid to take on the football program. They said the university would circle around it. It was like going against the president of United States. If that's the culture on the bottom, God help the culture at the top."

Meanwhile, Mike McQueary was sending recruiting letters like this after other NCAA scandals:

Paterno was more interested in his legacy, recruiting, and breaking the all-time wins record than he was about bringing a child sexual predator to light.

Paterno was a scumbag.

Evidently so! That's an awesome image btw.

[ArmyBengal]

Couldn't have said it any better Derek.

If Ohio State got a bowl ban for the misdeeds of some football players, I can't hardly imagine the same punishment being handed down for an entire organization that was knowingly more f*cked up than a soup hogey. There was intent behind all of their actions and not a good one anywhere to be found.

[derekshank]

Couldn't have said it any better Derek.

If Ohio State got a bowl ban for the misdeeds of some football players, I can't hardly imagine the same punishment being handed down for an entire organization that was knowingly more f*cked up than a soup hogey. There was intent behind all of their actions and not a good one anywhere to be found.

As a Buckeye fan, I think the bowl ban was deserved. Tressel knew about it, didn't report it, and lied about it.

Ohio State got consequences because of one guy who wasn't transparent about what was happening. Penn State's thing is far more devious and disgusting... and not only because the crimes were far worse (although that is part of it), but because the value system of those in power was so f**ked up, they thought avoiding public relations difficulties was worth providing a safe haven for a child rapist.

And how much power did these guys have? Here's how much.

Paterno's "bosses" asked him to retire in 2004. Paterno's response: "No." Seriously? How much power does someone have when you tell your "bosses" what you will and won't do?

Similarly, the Board of Trustees wanted to install governance reform so that the Board would be more involved with the decision making process in keeping with best practices to avoid liability issues within the University. Graham Spanier's response: "No."

WTF?!

The death penalty is the only option for a culture this f**ked up. The football team ran the University... and even powerful people were afraid to rock the boat.

[ArmyBengal]

I found it amusing that they feel a way to make the situation better is to remodel the shower where the events took place.

Really ?? That's the answer ??

They could burn that f*cking place to the ground and people would still say, "Yep, that's where it happened"...

They are still being silly with what they think is important up there.

The "Death penalty" as they are calling it, wouldn't surprise me.

[BengalszoneBilly]

And down goes the statue!! Penn State actually did it!!

[HoosierCat]

Yup. And the NCAA is bringing the hammer down tomorrow.

NCAA president Mark Emmert has decided to punish Penn State with severe penalties likely to include a significant loss of scholarships and loss of multiple bowls, a source close to the decision told ESPN's Joe Schad on Sunday morning.

But Penn State will not receive the so-called "death penalty" that would have suspended the program for at least one year, the source said.

The penalties, however, are considered to be so harsh that the death penalty may have been preferable, the source said.

[COB]

No death penalty for penn state.

Give some poor, fatherless kids money and cars, you get the death penalty.

Bend over some poor, fatherless kids and anally rape them, you don't get the death penalty.

Just so we all understand, one violation threatens the ncaa's free labor source for their billion dollar "amateur" sport, one violation does not threaten the free labor source. Sorry fatherless kids with now excessively stretched out rectums and mountains of shame and self loathing, but you just don't have much to do with the ncaa's "mission."

[ArmyBengal]

Heard something amusing on my way to work this morning when asked what they should do with Paterno's statue.

"Melt it down and make Jerry Sandusky's jail cell bars with it."

Lets be honest, even though they said the "death penalty" was on the table, I don't think it really was.

Regardless of how I feel about it being something that should have and probably would have actually helped the school put this sad event behind them, from a financial aspect, the "death penalty" was something that was probably never going to happen.

[derekshank]

So... just to be clear - the NCAA has ruled that protecting/enabling a child sexual predator is roughly 4 times worse than lying about tattoos.

Got it.

[ArmyBengal]

"We cannot look to NCAA history to determine how to handle circumstances so disturbing, shocking and disappointing"

Well maybe they should have and they would have been able to make a determination that the penalty should have been far worse than this. The 60 million is what was thought to be what the program makes in a single season. OH NO, NOT THAT !!! They said when it was all said and done that Penn St. would have probably preferred the death penalty. How the f*ck did they come close to that ?? F*cking outrageous...

[HoosierCat]

I don't have a problem with the sanctions levied by the NCAA this morning. Are they sufficient to the circumstances? All things considered, I rather doubt that any sanctions could be. How many football games is one abused child worth? No scale exists on which to weigh such a question. Both are measured in completely different currencies, and even the thought that there could be any kind of acceptable exchange rate between them is repugnant.

I give the NCAA credit for at least taking action. It would have been easy to hide behind their bylaws and rules and "let the legal process play out" rhetoric. Did they get it right? Like I said, I'm not sure there was a "right" to get.

[BengalszoneBilly]

What's absolutely insane is that Paterno's family continues to live in denial, saying the removal of the statue does not serve the victims. Are you f**king kidding me!?! Like leaving it up would help. They refuse to realize Joe had the chance to do the right and moral thing many years ago, and he passed on it.

[Walrus]

I don't have a problem with the sanctions levied by the NCAA this morning. Are they sufficient to the circumstances? All things considered, I rather doubt that any sanctions could be. How many football games is one abused child worth? No scale exists on which to weigh such a question. Both are measured in completely different currencies, and even the thought that there could be any kind of acceptable exchange rate between them is repugnant.

I give the NCAA credit for at least taking action. It would have been easy to hide behind their bylaws and rules and "let the legal process play out" rhetoric. Did they get it right? Like I said, I'm not sure there was a "right" to get.

I agree. It was a tough call. Technically, Penn State was not in violation of NCAA rules. My Penn State friends are of course outraged by this. But the league needed to impose a stiff enough penalty that it would act as a deterrent to similar coverups in the future. I think this serves that purpose. The NCAA can't undo the harm done to these kids/young adults, but that's not the goal here.

[redsbengalsbucks]

I still dont see the Paterno hate, just because the investigator says he thinks JoePa knew about it does not make it so. There is no linkage in the report to any evidence that suggest that JoePa knew for certain and he is not around to substantiate or deny any of these claims.

There is no reason to void all the victories earned by the players on those PSU football teams, because of this horrible circumstance. There was no cheating involved to earn those victories, just hard work by many different players that had nothing to do with any of this. What a stupid way to impose sanctions!

[ArmyBengal]

I don't really get voiding the wins in those years either.

I looked at that as a way of knocking Paterno from the top spot in coaching wins.

I do still feel this falls short of what most were thinking would go down.

I see it this way. If the original line of thought was there would be no "death penalty", but the penalties would make it so Penn State would PREFER the "death penalty", I wonder if they still feel that way today ?? In other words, would they prefer the "death penalty" for a couple seasons or what they got ?? I'm guessing they are cool with how it went down, seeing as how it doesn't come close to the "death penalty".

With that being the case, I still call BS.

Paterno was a hell of a coach, but as it turns out, maybe not so great in other areas.

I'm not sitting in judgement of him though...

[BengalszoneBilly]

I still dont see the Paterno hate, just because the investigator says he thinks JoePa knew about it does not make it so.

There is evidence, and the University denies none of it. He enabled a pedophile. What is so hard to understand here?

[HoosierCat]

The Big Ten adds its own sanctions:

/>http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/07/23/big-ten-piles-on-penn-state-with-additional-penalties/

Penn State declared ineligible for conference championship games for 4 years.

Penn State forfeits its share of Big Ten bowl revenues (estimated at $13 million) for the next four years.

[derekshank]

double post

[derekshank]

I still dont see the Paterno hate, just because the investigator says he thinks JoePa knew about it does not make it so.

There is evidence, and the University denies none of it. He enabled a pedophile. What is so hard to understand here?

Legal experts have said that if Paterno was still alive, he would likely be charged with child endangerment, perjury and conspiracy.

The Freeh report pretty clearly demonstrates that Paterno lied to the grand jury about when he found out about Sandusky.

Paterno, “were he alive, he would probably be scrutinized right now, as we speak, by a grand jury,” said Jeff Anderson, a lawyer who represents a young man suing Sandusky, Penn State and Sandusky’s charity over claims of sexual abuse. “When he did give testimony, now revealed to have been dubious at best and false on its face, that is illegal perjury because it was given under oath. So he is exposed.”

That doesn't include the evidence that has already been discussed about his role in the decision not to report Sandusky to Child Welfare.

He also sold his house to his wife for $1 shortly after all this broke... with the rationale presumably being that he knew his assets would be susceptible to liability lawsuits.

There is evidence... and it is damning. I'm not surprised he died. He must have been feeling a tremendous amount of stress... and at 85 years old, that's deadly.

And just so we don't forget what type of person Paterno wass... shortly after this story broke (and we now know that he was well aware of the gravity of the situation), he led a "we are" chant on his front lawn. This dude was out of touch... and as I stated earlier - a scumbag.

[ArmyBengal]

So adding the 13 million to the already 60 million in penalties and we are talking about a program that will still see better than 45+ million in revenues over the next two years. Over the course of the 4 year bowl ban ?? Yep, over 165 million in revenues. Someone please tell me where this makes any kind of sense. I usually only reserve this for certain players, but it applies here with a new twist:

F*CK YOU IN THE ASS PENN STATE !!!

[HoosierCat]

So adding the 13 million to the already 60 million in penalties and we are talking about a program that will still see better than 45+ million in revenues over the next two years. Over the course of the 4 year bowl ban ?? Yep, over 165 million in revenues. Someone please tell me where this makes any kind of sense.

I know it's a cold day in hell, because I'm about to point approvingly in the direction of serial douchebag Gregg Doyle, who has the answer to your question.

The NCAA hit Penn State so hard that it should sink to the bottom of the Big Ten, yet hit it so intelligently that Penn State will have no choice to but sink anyway. The school can't make like Tulane basketball in 1985, when the Green Wave were caught up in a point-shaving scandal and simply did away with basketball for a few years. Penn State won't have that luxury, because the school has been fined $60 million -- and it needs football to pay that fine.

Penn State football will lose games but make money, which is the best possible result. The local community needs Penn State football, needs it more than Dallas needed SMU in 1987 or more, really, than just about any small college town needs its big college football program. State College, Pa., would have been devastated by the death penalty. Emmert was aware of that when he said the NCAA considered but rejected that sanction because it "would bring unintended harm to many that had nothing to do with this case."

Current Penn State football players and recruits will feel "unintended harm," but they have an out. They can leave and play immediately elsewhere, or they can stay at Penn State on scholarship -- whether they keep playing or not.

Meanwhile, Penn State fans will still come to games, still buy merchandise, still pump money like coal into that furnace. But the money will not be used toward better facilities, more leather chairs in the locker room, more flat-screen televisions in the player lounge. The money will be used to support the fight against child abuse, and to support its victims.