Not piling on old Mike Brown

[Spor_tees]

I am curious how the new admin ban stick works. I hope it isn't employed here, because I enjoy the fresh exchange of ideas on occasion, even with the terminally stupid. And sportees, you remain terminally stupid.

Just keep proving my point.

[membengal]

Like I said, I have grown tired of arguing this with you.

Exactly. And because you're tired of defending your own stupidity you've decided to end it all by calling me a liar while pointing fingers at Shank and Memphis and anyone else who might have called you an a**h***. But in my defense, who HASN'T called you as a**h***?

No you are the liar, and I can prove it, you can't disprove it. My only qualm with them is that they blindly defend you like a little Bengalszone clique. Not just in the thread but over and over again.

Good christ, what a baby you are. If you want to bash Mike Brown and not get called on it in light of the phenomenal work he has apparently overseen up to this point in the season, you might try Who Dey Revolution. Except even THEY have retired the shtik. Which makes me question just how inpenetrably dumb you are. Apparently pretty damn dumb.

[derekshank]

I know here soon the two guys riding on your coat tails will rush in to your defense, one of which I expects as much from, the other I thought could think for himself.

Maybe it's just me, but I think you should have the balls to call those you intend to insult by their names.

I hadn't read his post before you quoted it. Here I am being insulted, and I was completely unawares!

It seems to me BallBreaker doth protest too much. When I wrote my post, I spoke in generalities. In fact, the person I was thinking of most when writing it is a friend of mine who probably doesn't even know this messageboard exists. Afterall... while Mike Brown haters are becoming an increasing minority, and those that still exist tend to be pretty quiet these days... there are still plenty of Mike Brown haters out there. Mostly because of the poorly thought-out reasons I previously stated.

But I don't think I need to defend myself against BB's insults, 1) because I rarely find his posts worth reading in the first place (as noted by the fact that I didn't even know I had been insulted), and 2) because I have made my opinion of Mike Brown's strengths and flaws well known over the last several years.

I see no need to restate these opinions now. There are plenty of guys that I disagree with that I respect. If Hoosier thought I couldn't think for myself, I'd feel the need to defend myself and enter another round of debating the matter... but BB? Like I said, I don't even read his posts anymore.

[membengal]

And, while we're here, this board was a repository of boring in the absence of Derek, and is so when Hair is away from computer. Hoosier is a good poster. TDB. COB. A lot of others - Hokie, By the Bay, even TJ, maybe even Kingwilly e.g. But for awhile there, a lot of that crew took time off from posting for stretches, and it was just you,sportees, starting stupid s**t threads that invariably, when posters with a thought to put together weigh in on and disagree with your take, you cry like a baby about cliques. Its just weird.

[Spor_tees]

Like I said, I have grown tired of arguing this with you.

Exactly. And because you're tired of defending your own stupidity you've decided to end it all by calling me a liar while pointing fingers at Shank and Memphis and anyone else who might have called you an a**h***. But in my defense, who HASN'T called you as a**h***?

No you are the liar, and I can prove it, you can't disprove it. My only qualm with them is that they blindly defend you like a little Bengalszone clique. Not just in the thread but over and over again.

Good christ, what a baby you are. If you want to bash Mike Brown and not get called on it in light of the phenomenal work he has apparently overseen up to this point in the season, you might try Who Dey Revolution. Except even THEY have retired the shtik. Which makes me question just how inpenetrably dumb you are. Apparently pretty damn dumb.

This has gotten way past a post about Mike Brown. The discussion at hand is actually irrelevant to this thread. The point is, how can HoF come in the thread guns ablazing calling me out for things, when in fact he is nothing but a fraud at posting. When backed into a corner he told a flat out lie. Then when asked for his source he never said another thing in the thread. I looked it up and it was in deed a lie. I cornered him about it again in this thread and he can't back it up. So that's basically what it has come down to. I will not accept any points of view from him, here on out because I see how he handles a discussion he is losing.

[Spor_tees]

I'm glad I don't get on here for the amusement of the Bengalszone clique. I am sorry I can no conform to step aside every time one of a certain number of posters disagrees with my opinion. I'm sorry I'm not cool enough to be in said clique. I'm sorry the sky is blue, most of the time. Finally I'm sorry that Kimo Von asshat busted Carson's knee in 2005, as then all of this thread may never bee happening.

[membengal]

This is still a thread about Mike Brown, and I will resurrect a post from the closed Palmer thread that applies here, made right about the time you whined your way into getting a valuable poster suspended. As for cliques, I have no idea what you are talking about. There is a bias on here from some toward thought grounded in facts. If that's cliquish, so be it.

These are the facts, inconvenient though they may be:

To expound....Mike Brown crushed this. When Palmer pulled his bitch move, on the eve of what was going to be a s**t off-season, he:

1. Chose continuity in retaining Marvin (I was against this)

2. Finally moved Brat out and brought in some very fresh thinking (all for this)

3. Was hit with the Palmer quitting in the face with next to no options to deal with it given the looming lockout

4. Calmly oversaw a draft where they selected the consensus best player in the draft rather than reaching for a qb, while patiently waiting for the qb prospect they had targeted from scouting and then selecting that qb.

5. Had the nerve to hand the team over to that same rookie qb on only training camp - relying on that qb to smart enough to pick up a brand new system to everyone installed by the rookie OC.

6. Withstood all calls to DEAL PALMER NOW FOR WHATEVER YOU CAN GET that were screamed from national media, Cincy talkshow hosts, dinks like Doc, and a whole bunch of idjits on message boards like this, and waited, since, as some like Derek and Hair (and others, ahem) could see, there was no point to deal in August for picks in April.

7. When the opportunity presented itself, thanks to his patience, he went with an offer that was beyond all bounds of reasonable, as the Bengals had their way with the Raiders, cementing their prospects to build on...

8. Completely unlooked for success from the rookie QB/WR and OC on a Bengals team that is somehow 4-2 with a coach that I, at least, thought shouldn't have come back.

All facts.

Mike Brown has f**kin' crushed this whole process since January.

So, yeah, patience wears thin from Derek, from me, and from a few others when posters carry on agendas that fly in the face of these facts. And when those agendas take over game threads, or are made in posts after wins that s**t on the team, etc., it makes this site less fun.

Mike Brown has flaws, no question. The entire holding onto CJ fiasco was crazy. I chafe at the foolishness he allowed to infect that locker-room from 2006 til about November last year. I don't understand why they don't do simple things like a Ring of Honor. The lost decade was unspeakable. I shall not speak of it.

But, in fairness, he has played this last 10 months like a GM master. I sure as f**k didn't think he could, but, there it is. I don't know where it goes from here this year, but if they get to 6 wins, they met my baseline, a baseline some said was already wildly optimistic. They seem to have found their QB, they have an offensive system that can grow with him, and s**tloads of picks in hand in the next two drafts. What's to complain about, seriously?

(BTW, it IS possible to admit being wrong...Hoosier did so with class on this very thread with respect to how Mike Brown has handled things)

Updated thought...they are now at 6 wins. Unreal.

[Spor_tees]

I never got you banned. I said that you deserved a warning for making personnal attacks. You got banned because you would not real in your anger when posting with Pimp. That had nothing to do with me. I was told by the Admin that you are a hot head and you just 'go off' every now and then and would settle down. So no, the only on you have to blame for being banned is yourself.

[HairOnFire]

I am also bemused that I am "bullying" for agreeing with the eloquent take of others. I am not sure what else to add.

Perhaps you could point out how BallBuster didn't bother responding to my eloquent response, and instead....immediately tried to change the subject.

BTW, I can't shake the feeling that Derek set me up for this. After all, he must have known how badly the inappropriately named BallBuster would take the news that I had won anything. Furthermore, I think we can all agree the spectacular hissy fit by the Buster o' Balls was all too predictable.

That said, perhaps he'll feel better after he's finished his afternoon nap.

[membengal]

I never got you banned. I said that you deserved a warning for making personnal attacks. You got banned because you would not real in your anger when posting with Pimp. That had nothing to do with me. I was told by the Admin that you are a hot head and you just 'go off' every now and then and would settle down. So no, the only on you have to blame for being banned is yourself.

Wasn't referring to myself you dink. But the whining stuff from you is fun. You gonna address what I reposted above from the closed thread, all grounded in fact, or keep ignoring the facts and try to get this thread closed too to avoid dealing with facts?

[Spor_tees]

I am also bemused that I am "bullying" for agreeing with the eloquent take of others. I am not sure what else to add.

Perhaps you could point out how BallBuster didn't bother responding to my eloquent response, and instead....immediately tried to change the subject.

BTW, I can't shake the feeling that Derek set me up for this. After all, he must have known how badly the inappropriately named BallBuster would take the news that I had won anything. Furthermore, I think we can all agree the spectacular hissy fit by the Buster o' Balls was all too predictable.

That said, perhaps he'll feel better after he's finished his afternoon nap.

Your eloquent what? Did I miss a post where you misquoted someone? took someone out of context? or just flat out made up some more stats and ranking to make your argument stick?

[Spor_tees]

I never got you banned. I said that you deserved a warning for making personnal attacks. You got banned because you would not real in your anger when posting with Pimp. That had nothing to do with me. I was told by the Admin that you are a hot head and you just 'go off' every now and then and would settle down. So no, the only on you have to blame for being banned is yourself.

Wasn't referring to me you dink.

I have never gotten anyone banned. In fact you are the only person I have complained to an Admin about.

[membengal]

I am also bemused that I am "bullying" for agreeing with the eloquent take of others. I am not sure what else to add.

Perhaps you could point out how BallBuster didn't bother responding to my eloquent response, and instead....immediately tried to change the subject.

BTW, I can't shake the feeling that Derek set me up for this. After all, he must have known how badly the inappropriately named BallBuster would take the news that I had won anything. Furthermore, I think we can all agree the spectacular hissy fit by the Buster o' Balls was all too predictable.

That said, perhaps he'll feel better after he's finished his afternoon nap.

Nap, bottle, burp, maybe a diaper change. Whatever is needed.

I would guess he will ignore what I have laid out above about Mike Brown's last 10 months too, and seek to continue to keep changing the subject.

[membengal]

I never got you banned. I said that you deserved a warning for making personnal attacks. You got banned because you would not real in your anger when posting with Pimp. That had nothing to do with me. I was told by the Admin that you are a hot head and you just 'go off' every now and then and would settle down. So no, the only on you have to blame for being banned is yourself.

Wasn't referring to me you dink.

I have never gotten anyone banned. In fact you are the only person I have complained to an Admin about.

I cannot imagine how deeply I must be in your kitchen. Literally, I typed a short agreement with someone on this thread and you started name calling. Fun.

Care to respond to my post from above yet with regard to facts about Mike Brown's last 10 months as GM?

[membengal]

Why split flaming hairs?

The haters always say Mike Brown is ultimately responsible for everything that happens on his watch, right?

Mike Brown only gets the credit when it's something bad. When it is anything good Lewis inexplicably gets all of the credit.

Score!

[membengal]

One other thing to keep in mind with the whole MB criticism train.

He was against the old CBA, and we struggled. The value on FA's and Draft picks was all whacky. This new CBA is much more business friendly, and I think you're going to see him work the system like master. Love him or hate him, if there's one thing you can say about MB, it's that he's a helluva business man.

Alley with a homerun post right here.

[membengal]

s**t i think brown deserves a lot of credit. after all mike is the end of the line here nothing happens unless he says so.

look at the f/a's he has brought in, nugent, howard, lawson, clements, crocker, benson. trades for guys like leonard, nelson, tate, mays. then add he completely raped the raiders in the deal for palmer and 2 damn good past drafts. mike has put together a damn good team with a very good core of young talent. plus future picks! is mike finally getting it, sure looks like it to me. i hope he keeps it up! hats of to the man! WHO f**king DEY MIKEY!

On point.

[membengal]

I am going to take a stab at being the devil's advocate. So Let me get this right, if the Bengals have one winning season a decade, Mike Brown is all of a sudden no longer the problem, but instead the answer?

No. It's not simply the winning season that has everyone excited, but moreso the optimism that this team is being set up for long-term success.

Whether or not that's going to occur remains to be seen, but at the end of the day Mike Brown is responsible for the ray of hope that we're finally seeing. Sure, Brown's role in this may be nothing more than listening to his coaching staff, but the fact remains that he gets the final say-so and as of now his decisions (or lack therof) are actually showing dividends.

High five.

(And I forgot to list skyline as one of the awesome posters here. My bad. He is.)

[Spor_tees]

I am also bemused that I am "bullying" for agreeing with the eloquent take of others. I am not sure what else to add.

Perhaps you could point out how BallBuster didn't bother responding to my eloquent response, and instead....immediately tried to change the subject.

BTW, I can't shake the feeling that Derek set me up for this. After all, he must have known how badly the inappropriately named BallBuster would take the news that I had won anything. Furthermore, I think we can all agree the spectacular hissy fit by the Buster o' Balls was all too predictable.

That said, perhaps he'll feel better after he's finished his afternoon nap.

Nap, bottle, burp, maybe a diaper change. Whatever is needed.

I would guess he will ignore what I have laid out above about Mike Brown's last 10 months too, and seek to continue to keep changing the subject.

What is there to argue about? You guys think all the decisions were made by Mike Brown. I believe they were decisions that were finally delegated to Marvin. Which was a promotion he demanded before signing back to coach the Bengals. With that responsibility, Marvin decided to delegate some of the other responsibility to his coaches. Who better to pick the quarterback to run his offense, than the offensive coordinator. I have already said in this thread that biggest credit Mike Brown should get for this offseason is making the decision to let other people make the decisions. This point was best made by the fact Shefter reported Mike Brown wanted to take Mallet but instead he let Gruden get Dalton. That isn't how it would have worked before this year. Mallet would be a Bengal right now. So with that being said, you can't give Mike Brown the credit for the success of the football team, but you can give him credit for putting aside his pride long enough to know he is no longer the man to make those decisions.

[membengal]

I am going to take a stab at being the devil's advocate. So Let me get this right, if the Bengals have one winning season a decade, Mike Brown is all of a sudden no longer the problem, but instead the answer?

No. It's not simply the winning season that has everyone excited, but moreso the optimism that this team is being set up for long-term success.

Whether or not that's going to occur remains to be seen, but at the end of the day Mike Brown is responsible for the ray of hope that we're finally seeing. Sure, Brown's role in this may be nothing more than listening to his coaching staff, but the fact remains that he gets the final say-so and as of now his decisions (or lack therof) are actually showing dividends.

I just find it highly unlikely that Mike Brown can go from being, well...Mike Brown, and turn into Ozzie Newsome over night. I do believe that some people can change, but Mike Brown has shown no inkling of changing over the previous 19 years, and because of that I still can't accept this season as Mike Brown's doing. Maybe Marvin has had a great deal in saying what happens this year and during the past offseason, I don't know. If that is the case I think Marvin needs to make the move to the front office and bring in another head coach. If Marvin could devote his entire year to doing the things that has been done this year, imagine how things might be.

I can live with your opinion that this season can't be all Mike Brown's doing but with that in mind, you'd also have to acknowledge that the 2-14 season wasn't all his doing as well. Fair enough?

Another internet high five to searay.

I assume all of these posters are a part of some clique, sportees? Just checking.

[membengal]

You guys are going to love this. Mid-season executive of the year!

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d823e4149/Midseason-awards?module=HP11_content_stream

Holy f**kin' s**t! nfl.com is part of the clique too? Mother of god, its a conspiracy to end all conspiracies.

[membengal]

My Q2 report card for Mike Brown.

Dear lord, Hoosier in the clique???!! Hoosier?

It. can. not. be.

And yet, when I follow that link, Hoosier all over it.

[membengal]

I don't care how it happened, I'm just glad it did and hope that it continues.

Probable winner winner chicken dinner from the new guy.

[membengal]

Hair didn't just start defending Mikey this season, and for good reason. Bengalia's perception of the man is mostly ludicrous.

So much goodness in this post, and in so few words. Props.

[Spor_tees]

Arguing the last point that SeaRay made would be like arguing that the terrible economy that happened during Bush's presidency was Bill Clinton's fault. The reason you can't blame Marvin for any season up to this point is because Marvin didn't have the control over the free agents and draft picks. It would be like trying to make a cake and someone else randomly handing you ingredients. You try to do the best you can, but you can't guarantee how it is going to come out tasting. With Marvin now having more control he can do more.

Why do I even have to explain why Mike Brown doesn't deserve credit? I mean the professionals, the guys that really get to follow the teams, had him the second worst owner in the league last years. Even this year he has only moved up to 5th worst in the league.