THE CHANGES THREAD...Marvin to return

[HairOnFire]

No it doesn't.

Well, I remain convinced that it does.

Convinced? Well, I'm willing to bet you aren't. So pick something to wager based upon Wanny being named a Bengal coach next season. In fact, I'm so convinced Hoosier's rant is nothing but empty headed stupidity that I'm willing to bet the Bengals won't even interview Wanny for any position....nevermind actually hiring him.

You talk about Bengal fans doing/saying stupid stuff, but bottom line -- I see Bengals management doing stupid things year in and year out, and in my opinion as a direct result, we have one of the very worst W-L records in the NFL over the last 20 years.

No argument. But there's a difference between actual stupidity and stupid stupidity....a distinction most Mike Brown bashers can't seem to make. And for just a few examples you can start with the endless yammering about practice bubbles and a small scouting staff when the core problems being faced are rooted in a fascination with silly Clockwork Orange passing schemes and a willingness to allow a parade of raving cockbags to be the clowning face of the franchise.

I do look forward to new management, hopefully in my lifetime. I'm younger than Son-of-a-Genius is, so chances are good I will see this happen, eventually.

Well ask yourself this question. Who taught Pumpkie the game of football?

[TJJackson]

Convinced? Well, I'm willing to bet you aren't. So pick something to wager based upon Wanny being named a Bengal coach next season.

Oh, my bad - I did not intend to say that i agree that Brown will hire Wannstedt - rather, I meant it sounded *like* something he'd do. Ie hiring Wannstedt or some other worthless retread would be par for the course for Son-of-a-Genius.

But there's a difference between actual stupidity and stupid stupidity

Gotcha. Sorta. All I am saying is I see an endless trail of historical stupidity from SoaG, so I see no reason why it won't continue in this fashion. Yeah, it will not shock me in the least when OchoTanko gets his option picked up, when no other team in the league would even consider doing so.

Well ask yourself this question. Who taught Pumpkie the game of football?

I'll argue that you're asking the wrong question here - try this one instead - is Pumpkin smart enough to realize her limitations, and put her personal pride aside to the end of improving this football team, and hire herself a legit football mind as GM? Neither of us knows the answer, but with SoaG, we know it is a 'no', and at least there is a *possibility* of a 'yes' from Pumpkin. I will gladly cling to that possibility, as I see it as the Bengals only sustainable hope for the future.

[HairOnFire]

Oh, my bad - I did not intend to say that i agree that Brown will hire Wannstedt - rather, I meant it sounded *like* something he'd do. Ie hiring Wannstedt or some other worthless retread would be par for the course for Son-of-a-Genius.

Your bad again. Mike Brown simply doesn't have a track record of hiring retreads. Rather, he has a history of hiring head coaches who have never served as head coaches before and coordinators who come with a resume filled with both success and failure, a habit that is hardly unique in the NFL. Furthermore, in regards to retreads, I'm guessing Mike won't even give Wannstedt a courtesy sniff for any coaching position BUT he may take another whiff of OC Mike Mularkey, who he was said to be very interested in hiring in 2003.

Yeah, it will not shock me in the least when OchoTanko gets his option picked up, when no other team in the league would even consider doing so.

Exactly. A perfect example of actual fact-based stupidity as opposed to the type of out-of-thin-air stupid stupidity so many of us fans are currently wallowing in.

I'll argue that you're asking the wrong question here - try this one instead - is Pumpkin smart enough to realize her limitations...

Well, she does dress like a very conservative young man.

[COB]

BUT he may take another whiff of OC Mike Mularkey,

Whoa there.

I don't know much about Mike Mularkey, but with a name like that we'll probably have an offensive coordinator named Tomfoolery and a DC named Shenanigens.

/Drunken, poorly timed rimshot/

[HoosierCat]

Joe Reedy gives his estimate of the chance of Marvin and Brat coaching in Cincy next year:

Marvin: 30%

Brat: 50%

[COB]

Brat: 50%

I've about had it.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Brat: 50%

I've about had it.

We'll put you at 99% then.

[HairOnFire]

I've about had it.

Probably true of almost all of us.

The Bengals have been out of it for so long that my anger cooled months ago....replaced by numb frustration. And my interest level drops with each passing week, not because the Bengals continue to lose, but rather....because winning a game or two won't matter or help.

Consider this very messageboard. We no longer bother with pregame threads. Recent roster moves are ignored. Discussions about the draft go nowhere.

Apathy defines most of us. Cold hatred defines the rest. In fact, the only threads that stir emotions are those rooted in firing someone, from ownership, to coaches, to players.

Nutshelled, we're a fanbase following the exploits of a team we no longer love, and our willingness to continue doing so seems to be based upon how much change will be made at seasons end.

And so we wait.

And as the prophet Tom Petty so often reminds us, the waiting is the hardest part. And that's true because this teams fanbase has already suffered through two full months of meaningless games...only to find itself facing another full month of meaningless games. As a result the coming offseason now becomes the only thing left that might give some small measure of meaning to what we've witnessed. Yet even that is only true if substantial change results.

Keep Marvin as head coach and some fans will bail. Others will bail if Bratkowski is allowed to continue building his perfect beast. Still others will cash in their chips if the Bengals refuse to dump Palmer. And still others, including myself, may finally call it a day if this team picks up Chad's option.

That said, not everyone has approached or reached their breaking point. Because some of us continue to point to crap stats and the narrow margin of most losses as proof this teams doesn't need to be blown up or gutted like a fish. Perhaps they're right. But my gut is telling me that the greatest risk this franchise now faces rests upon trying to fix this team instead of taking the painful steps needed to replace it with something better.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Because some of us continue to point to crap stats and the narrow margin of most losses as proof this teams doesn't need to be blown up or gutted like a fish.

I'm not so sure that premise is all that true. They've had some reasonably close losses, but they've also had a decent number of 6-pointers and a few blowouts. Most games are inside of 6pts, so a 6-point loss isn't really that close. They've also had games that weren't as close as they looked.

But in the end I'd probably agree that they've lost more than a couple games that they had in the bag had they not made stupid mistakes.

Now, you want to see a team that's outplayed their record? Detroit. 2-10, only -28 pts on the year.

[Kazkal]

Give Zimmer the last 4 games dammit.

PS,We may have been close in alot of games but thats because we came back in garbage time....How many of those games were we 20+ pts behind

[BengalszoneBilly]

Nutshelled, we're a fanbase following the exploits of a team we no longer love, and our willingness to continue doing so seems to be based upon how much change will be made at seasons end.

You may want to just speak for yourself. I'll follow this team to my grave.

[Trevor]

me too!!!!!

[COB]

You may want to just speak for yourself. I'll follow this team until it puts me in to my grave.

[BengalszoneBilly]

You may want to just speak for yourself. I'll follow this team until it puts me in to my grave.

Hah! Good edit.

[membengal]

Not me. Per my other threads on this, mikey b has finally worn me down. Just turned 40 on saturday. Not sure I am ready to sign up for another 40 years of misery broken up by fluky seasons that are forgotten by the next fall. Bengals need to give something to cling to other than the laundry and my wasted 35 years of zealotry. The coaching situation must be addressed in a way that makes sense. Clown shoes 85 must finally be gone, and something resembling a plan w/ draft and club approach needs to be implemented. Otherwise, I am ay the end. Never thought I would get to this point, but there it is.

[COB]

Clown shoes 85 must finally be gone,

I went to the Bengals-Bills game a couple weeks ago. Our seats were in the first row in the southern end zone in PBS, giving us a great vantage point to watch the teams before the game.

During warmups the Bills were running around, high fiving each other, running their drills with energy and purpose and just generally looking like a team. They pounded each other on the shoulder pads, they had a few interactions with the crowd.

You know what the Bengals did? They went through their warmups, but what they all pretty much did was watch Chad and T.O. You know what the people in the crowd did? They watched Chad and T.O. There are just some people who, by the force of their personalities, just suck the energy out of a room. That's Chad.

We all have a finite amount of emotional and psychic energy to give any activity. Personalities like Chad and T.O. take up too much of that energy. They just suck the life from their teammates and wreck the team ethos that needs to pervade everything a team does.

Players like Drew Brees, Troy Polomaulu, Ray Lewis, et al, they energize their teammates. Chad does the opposite.

Going forward, they really need to drop both Chad and T.O. I know they are better players than some of the guys who will replace them.

It comes down to Mike finally learning that we need to quit trying to get the best player and instead get the right player.

[jjakq27]

I've worked with a few people like that. Decent, good people but they flat wear you out after a period of time. They make it hard to focus with all of the "noise".

[Walrus]

Anyone interested in Hue Jackson as HC or possibly OC? Looks like he could get canned from Oakland. Probably nobody's first choice -- and I bet a few here wouldn't even consider the guy due to his history with Chad. But given that history with the team, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he was on Mikey's radar.

[kingwilly]

Anyone interested in Hue Jackson as HC or possibly OC? Looks like he could get canned from Oakland. Probably nobody's first choice -- and I bet a few here wouldn't even consider the guy due to his history with Chad. But given that history with the team, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he was on Mikey's radar.

I like Hue and he is a big reason the Raiders have improved.

I think it is more likely Carson goes to Oakland than hue coming here. The QB situation in Oakland is dreadful: Gradkowski, Boller, Campbell... Not exactly All Pro's.

[HoosierCat]

Anyone interested in Hue Jackson as HC or possibly OC? Looks like he could get canned from Oakland. Probably nobody's first choice -- and I bet a few here wouldn't even consider the guy due to his history with Chad. But given that history with the team, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he was on Mikey's radar.

James Walker floated his name last week. No objections from my corner. And it would probably mean Sideshow Bob is gone; I don't see him staying to work under a guy who used to work under him. Unfortunately, that also probably makes it far too smart a move for this organization to make.

[HairOnFire]

Nutshelled, we're a fanbase following the exploits of a team we no longer love, and our willingness to continue doing so seems to be based upon how much change will be made at seasons end.

You may want to just speak for yourself. I'll follow this team to my grave.

Let me attempt to clarify. As a fan you're now claiming you'll follow this FRANCHISE to your grave, and I'm sure you're not alone in that regard. But what are your feelings for this Bengal team? What are your feelings for this seasons collection of players and coaches? And perhaps most importantly, how do you feel about the style of play they've chosen?

Point blank, I hate this team because of the way it has attempted to define itself this season. In fact, I've hated it from the moment I first witnessed what they were attempting to do offensively in the opener against New England, long before the wheels actually fell off the bandwaggon. And not only do I hate how this team attempted to win games...I hate how they conduct themselves. I'm sick of divas, primadonnas, acts of redemption, and complimentary players who play the right way one year and then coast the next.

As a fan of the Bengal franchise my support for this team is a given. I too will be a Bengal fan until I die....because on at least one level I'm comfortable with the deal I've made with the devil. That said, my interest level rarely stays constant. It rises and falls based upon many factors, including the level of enjoyment I get from speaking to other Bengal fans. And that's critical because when places like Bengalzone begin to resemble the crowd gathered at an open casket funeral, well....none of us are going to be as involved as we would if the team was winning, or for that matter....losing in a way we could be proud of.

Again, my great fear is that the powers that be conclude things aren't as bad as the record implies, and after te season comes to an end everyone directly involved will stay inplace to fix what is broken.....instead of admitting failure and embracing change.

End this and I stay invested....even if it means yet another rebuilding attempt.

[HairOnFire]

Going forward, they really need to drop both Chad and T.O. I know they are better players than some of the guys who will replace them.

It comes down to Mike finally learning that we need to quit trying to get the best player and instead get the right player system.

Fixed it for ya.

One of my greatest complaints with Bratkowski's Clockwork Orange scheme is it's requirement of top talent at every offensive skill position...yet by design wastes much of that talent due to playcalling dictated by defensive alignment and coverage. In fact, compare it to New England's offensive scheme where modestly talented WR's and backs thrive in an offensive scheme that is basically a checkdown offense that still consistently produces huge plays and deep strikes by dictating to the defense instead of reacting to it.

Only in a Bratkowski scheme could a deep threat who doesn't actually produce (Henry) be considered the key to the passing game.

[HairOnFire]

Anyone interested in Hue Jackson as HC or possibly OC? Looks like he could get canned from Oakland. Probably nobody's first choice -- and I bet a few here wouldn't even consider the guy due to his history with Chad. But given that history with the team, I wouldn't be surprised at all if he was on Mikey's radar.

Count me as indifferent. I don't consider Jackson's history with Chad to be a plus and the report specifically mentions the habit of unwisely throwing in the 4th quarter as a source of tension between Cable and Jackson. Overblown? Probably, but throwing when well established history you should be running is a growing trend in the NFL and the teams doing it consistently pay a heavy price for it. Cincy versus Tampa Bay being just one example. Baltimore against Pittsburgh being another.

Biggest thing in Jackson's favor? Mike Zimmer doesn't deserve consideration as a head coach...nor does he deserve to be fired. So I lean towards an offensive guy being named head coach.

[volcom69]

Count me in with hating this team, the current team that is. I hate having to watch everyweek to see what Chad and TO have to say, i just hate watching them play anymore. This team brings down my Sundays each and every week. Worst part is this is the first year, im so sick of the Bengals that its even hard for me to watch football anymore.....and i hate it.

Im here, and i know im stuck here, but i just dont even care anymore. I cant care, i wanna watch football i wanna enjoy my Sundays after Bengals games, so whatever happens with the Bengals happens. We can all scream, but the truth is we have no say, whatever Mike does he does, and i cant see him doing much of anything. So as long as he is here, this team will continue to stuggle! As long as Marvin is the coach here we will continue to see average to below average teams. So enough is enough, i wish something would finally get done

[derekshank]

After the Giants meltdown, it looks like Coughlin might be available.

We know that Mike liked Coughlin, and with meltdowns like that... he's clearly Bengal coach material.