Smoking gun that Marv has to go

[walzav29]

I was thinking about how important the game next week at Atlanta is and I started thinking of how the Bengals have played on the road under Marvin against non-division opponents. It's truly pathetic. Below is a list of their record and the few wins they had against teams with winning records.

2003 1-4 (The 1 win was against the 2-9 Chargers)

2004 2-3 (Washington 3-6 Philly 13-2 but they were resting starters for playoffs)

2005 3-2 (Chi 1-2, Det 4-10, Tenn 2-4)

2006 2-3 (New Orleans 6-4 KC 0-0)

2007 1-4 (Miami 1-14)

2008 0-5

2009 1-4 (GB 1-0)

2010 1-1 (Car 0-3)

They are 11-26 vs non-Division opponents under Marvin Lewis. With 3 wins against teams with winning records and Philly resting starters. I am glad they haven't re-signed him, and we'll see what Zimmer can do. I didn't realize how bad that is. Think of the bad road losses they have had. At Arz, Oak, Buff to name a few.

[volcom69]

Yep this coaching continues to struggle to get this team prepared, or get fired up to play the teams they should beat, and or non divisional games.

[jjakq27]

Guys I'm not convinced that Zimmer is the answer. He failed to call a timeout before the long completion near the end of regulation last week. His defense doesn't seem to have the same bite that it did last year.

Marvin's far from perfect but I would be surprised if they fire him. Yeah we've had some crappy loses but he just went 6-0 in the division last year. Have the Ravens or Steelers done that in recent memory?

I could see him stepping down but they like him and all of the other extraneous stuff that he does for the franchise.

[ArmyBengal]

I'm thinking Marvin is back next season without much thought.

I can't say as I really like or dislike thinking that, but that's the feeling I have...

[COB]

Think of what he does with what he's given. Then think how his predecessors performed with what they were given.

He doesn't get players like Bellicheat does. Do you think for one minute Dennis Roland would be playing right tackle in New England? They'd have traded for someone better by now.

[ArmyBengal]

Think of what he does with what he's given. Then think how his predecessors performed with what they were given.

He doesn't get players like Bellicheat does. Do you think for one minute Dennis Roland would be playing right tackle in New England? They'd have traded for someone better by now.

Well, to be fair, he was given a sh*t sandwich last season when he declared he finally had a team full of "his type of players", then proceeded to sweep the division and take the AFC North. I am certainly not arguing that there are players that wouldn't be playing for other teams, but I think that is something that works in his favor (up to now) in that he has gotten production from less than envied players.

Yeah, I wish they would trade for some better o-linemen (Mankins comes to mind), but we all know that would cost far more than our owner/GM is willing to part with. Again, I'm not sure I like the fact I think Marvin will return, only citing the things I think play into it from Mike Brown's perspective.

Then again, he could be fired next week. Who knows ??

[Horsemen]

Think of what he does with what he's given. Then think how his predecessors performed with what they were given.

He doesn't get players like Bellicheat does. Do you think for one minute Dennis Roland would be playing right tackle in New England? They'd have traded for someone better by now.

Excuses, nothing more. It is the coaches job to coach up talent. Belichick succeeds at it because he knows what he's doing. He's also smart enough to realize that if you minimize the divas/bullsh**/chraracter risks opting instead to grab high character, hardworking guys and making that his foundation he will always have a strong program. It's amazing to me how Bill Belichick can grab UDFA's and late rounders, then have them playing at high levels while Lewis can't even get 1st rounders to play at a higher level than where we drafted them at.

The truth of the matter is, as Lewis admitted to last season, he's getting the players HE wants. It isn't coincidence we suddenly started going after boom/bust picks and characterless players once he arrived. As he said, these are his type of players. He wanted a lazy fat RT, now he's stuck with Roland. These players are what Giggles asked for. We're now heading for a 3rd rebuild because of it and hopefully this time? We hire a HC who'll rebuild the roster with Patriots/Colts type of players. Hardworking, high character guys who don't NEED the coaches on them to get better, guys who'll want that for themselves. Hopefully we'll also have some coaches who can actually coach players up so we can stop rebuilding every other year.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

04-06 was perfectly acceptable. 07-09 were obviously failures.

I suspect he'll be gone after this season, likely due to $ and the inability to wrest some more control of the offense and coaching staff, for a better offer or different role elsewhere.

[ArmyBengal]

The truth of the matter actually is that none of know what will or won't happen in regard to Marvin.

We can throw around reasons to both hope he returns and hope he's sh*tcanned.

We can like or dislike how things have played out in regards to who was or wasn't brought in or if any of us think they are good players or not, but bottomline is, Marvin has taken those same players and managed to do something no other team has done in the history of the division and dispite all the challenges last season, still managed to earn coach of the year honors.

Considering that, I think Mr. Brown will be looking to keep him on here.

If not, I think the reason will be due to what additions Marvin wants. Call it more say/control, money, or whatever.

AGAIN, I can't say as I'm happy or sad in that thought...

[combatbengal]

Here is the thing, whether you like Marvin or not, if we bring in a new HC next season it's going to be another 2-3 years before we see any results, if we see any at all. New HC, new way of doing business, new standards, new rules and policies, etc. Seattle brought in TJ for a reason and then the next year, they got new coaches and he was cut! They still suck too! TJ can also still play, but got cut because of the new HC, new way of doing business, etc. So, do we want to keep Marvin and hope things improve or do we want to get a new HC and start from scratch again? Will TO and Adam Jones be back next season? Say what you want to say about them, but both are performing for us this year. Will Chad be back next season? He's not really performing this year! Carson isn’t performing for that matter either.

I've been to training camps, been to preseason games, season and the playoff game. Nothing has really changed in my eyes. There still isn't a desire to win, no discipline, no sense of urgency. We’re making the same mistakes week in and week out. Dropped balls, penalties, three and outs, missed tackles, etc.

[BengalszoneBilly]

There still isn't a desire to win, no discipline, no sense of urgency. We’re making the same mistakes week in and week out. Dropped balls, penalties, three and outs, missed tackles, etc.

If that isn't a leadership problem, I don't know what is. I see little emotion on the sidelines from the coaching staff except for maybe a frown at a player who just effed up instead of getting up in his grill, grabbing his jersey, and chewing his ass out!

[Horsemen]

Here is the thing, whether you like Marvin or not, if we bring in a new HC next season it's going to be another 2-3 years before we see any results, if we see any at all. New HC, new way of doing business, new standards, new rules and policies, etc. Seattle brought in TJ for a reason and then the next year, they got new coaches and he was cut! They still suck too! TJ can also still play, but got cut because of the new HC, new way of doing business, etc. So, do we want to keep Marvin and hope things improve or do we want to get a new HC and start from scratch again? Will TO and Adam Jones be back next season? Say what you want to say about them, but both are performing for us this year. Will Chad be back next season? He's not really performing this year! Carson isn’t performing for that matter either.

I've been to training camps, been to preseason games, season and the playoff game. Nothing has really changed in my eyes. There still isn't a desire to win, no discipline, no sense of urgency. We’re making the same mistakes week in and week out. Dropped balls, penalties, three and outs, missed tackles, etc.

I can only speak for myself but i'm done hoping he improves as a coach. 8 years now, 8 long years and he has yet to improve. I'm not willing to spend another decade hoping for it. We need a guy in here who can do what good HC's do and to bring his own staff especially on offense. We need guys who can coach up players really well, as well as can find UDFA gems. Find assistants to do that and we won't have to rebuild all the time. Find a coach who CAN coach and we'll win more than we lose regularly.

As to being set back 2-3 years? I doubt it. Teams have won with less talent than we have and Mikey isn't going to let someone blow up the roster in one season. We're already heading for another rebuild with our without Lewis. We can still win next year with a good coaching staff and complete the rebuild in year #2. I'm willing to risk it. I understand the apprehension, I do, that we MAY trade Lewis for another Coslet. Believe me I get it. But you can't improve if you don't try and take risks. I'm willing to risk it.

[kenyon1977]

It was my understanding that Zimmer was promised the head coaching position next season. That's why he signed a one year deal and Lewis hasn't signed anything. Regardless of who's coaching though when your two starting wide receivers are in their 30's that's usually not a good thing. Man I don't know maybe it's just a reactionary thought process because I am in the middle of watching the Buckeyes get man handled by Wisconsin right now.

[ArmyBengal]

It's been a little dead around here, but I'm surprised there havn't been any clever comments about how the lack of focus and coaching issues would result in Bye Week beating the Bengals 27-6 this coming week. I mean that would certainly have to result in some changes with personnel, right ??