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Bengals vs. Panthers postgame discussion

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Defense:

Everything looked good, generally. The run defense was iffy against Williams' cuts, but generally the defensive line won the battle upfront. Clausen wasn't able to get anything going against a decent pass rush from the front four. Zimmer blitzed, but not terribly often. They forced some turnovers too, albeit with the help of a rookie quarterback.

Special teams:

Awesome. Huber pinned them back repeatedly and Nugent was money again.

Offense:

Palmer looked worse than he ever had before in the first half. The second half was better, but not enough so to leave me feeling very good about him moving forward. The offensive line struggled mightily in forging holes for Ced until the second half when Carolina was tired. Shipley and Gresham continue to impress.

Play this way against Cleveland and no win is a guarantee.

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Special teams:

Awesome. Huber pinned them back repeatedly and Nugent was money again.

Play this way against Cleveland and no win is a guarantee.

I am happy with the kicking game. The offense has me worried bad.

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Offense is terrible, no push from the o-line, Chad and TO have not been that great thus far, Palmer has some issues he needs to deal with. I still think this team needs a FB. They better figure something out, with all this so called talent on offense there is no need for them to look like this. I think Shipley has been the best reciever so far

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Anybody questioning the picks of Gresham and Shipley now? Based on need, production and who was on the Board, I'd say Gresham is our best #1 pick since Palmer. Not a pretty win but I'll take it. We won't win many road games by more than a TD. I think most of our offensive problems can be traced to Palmer and a little to Bratkowski. Not only is he making poor throws, he's not doing a good job of getting the calls made and getting everyone into position.

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Based on need, production and who was on the Board, I'd say Gresham is our best #1 pick since Palmer.

Understandable, but I'll take Joseph and Hall.

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A needed win thanks to the defense. They came out flat after halftime then turned it back on. The turnovers they got at the start of the game were huge.

I don't know if the offensive woes are fixable. Carson making poor decisions and even worse throws. More pre-snap penalties. Brat seems incapable of doing anything to make them better. Chad a couple of bad drops. O-line inconsistent. They got 2 TDs though, thanks to the defense. Still no identity or rhythm for this offense. Fire Brat now.

Special teams were decent in coverage and returns, nothing special. Huber kicked very well and the way Nugent is kicking it seems hard to believe the K competition was as close as it was.

"he's not doing a good job of getting the calls made and getting everyone into position. "

I think the plays are taking a long time to get to him. They weren't getting to the line until there were only 13-14 secs left on the play clock.

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Anybody questioning the picks of Gresham and Shipley now? Based on need, production and who was on the Board, I'd say Gresham is our best #1 pick since Palmer. Not a pretty win but I'll take it. We won't win many road games by more than a TD. I think most of our offensive problems can be traced to Palmer and a little to Bratkowski. Not only is he making poor throws, he's not doing a good job of getting the calls made and getting everyone into position.

Best offensive pick, yes.

Had they not been snookered by fatdre, they could have taken Orakpo.

I am most concerned with Palmer throwing weak passes. Off his back foot, underthrowing several times today.

Brat had a run-heavy game plan, so not seeing Scott much makes me scratch my head. just a whole bunch of silly playcalls. The playcalls after the Stewart fumble were really good. misdirections and well executed.

Not getting the point before the half was an utter joke.

Ugly win. better tighten it up.

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Anybody questioning the picks of Gresham and Shipley now? Based on need, production and who was on the Board, I'd say Gresham is our best #1 pick since Palmer.

Thank You, and when I was Pimpin' him hard pre-draft people were saying they didnt want to "Waste" a 1st on a TE....Gresham is the future.

Leon Hall was a hell of a #1 pick as well IMO

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I have never been this discouraged by a win. That was a pathetic offense. I saw better, when Klingler was QBing.

What happened to the Palmer that could pick a team up and drag them to a win even when they had to score 30-40 points. For two weeks straight the D has won the game for a very limp looking offense.

I am disgusted by the play-calling, by the lack luster execution and the horrible accuracy of Palmer.

Play like that at Cleveland and they will lose by 20 points.

It is time to take Brat out back and put him out of my misery.

FIRE BRAT NOW!!!!!!!!

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The thing about Palmer's poor play is that it's strongly related to trying to throw the ball to 85. Palmer-to-Ocho was something like 4 catches/12 targets for 34 yards and a pick. TO was 4/8/42 and a pick. Meanwhile, Gresham and Shipley were targeted about 10 times and caught 7 for a combined 96 yards.

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As long as Carson is playing at a 2nd string level, the Bengals have no hope of reaching the post season.

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I just don't think Carson is quite this bad. The last two games have been putrid no doubt, and I have no explanation. His mechanics have been crap, his reads have been crap, and his throws have been crap.

I think it's logical to expect him to improve, simply as a return to some sort of mean for him. He doesn't appear likely to return to his old form at any time though.

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Note HC's mention of where Palmer is struggling the most (throwing to Chad and to a lesser extent, TO). It makes you wonder who's doing what and why, and it's just silly. Chad not even helping Gresham up after a big catch and run(and was the only other Bengal close to him) says a lot to me - totally selfish, immature and unfocused as usual. I am thoroughly sick of his act and his poor play. I don't know how his teammates can stand him.

They will have to overcome the o-line all year and learn to win with bad blocking, via good defense, ST's, and having two very good/great RB's who can find a few yards. Cedric hasn't even broken 100 yet this season. Palmer has to play better, but he hasn't played very well in some time, so I suspect he'll need things to go better around him if they want to win with him.

Livings and Roland are just BAD o-lineman, who shouldn't be starting for anyone in the NFL.

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They have to seriously consider starting Andre Smith this week. Roland is that bad

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Note HC's mention of where Palmer is struggling the most (throwing to Chad and to a lesser extent, TO). It makes you wonder who's doing what and why, and it's just silly. Chad not even helping Gresham up after a big catch and run(and was the only other Bengal close to him) says a lot to me - totally selfish, immature and unfocused as usual. I am thoroughly sick of his act and his poor play. I don't know how his teammates can stand him.

They will have to overcome the o-line all year and learn to win with bad blocking, via good defense, ST's, and having two very good/great RB's who can find a few yards. Cedric hasn't even broken 100 yet this season. Palmer has to play better, but he hasn't played very well in some time, so I suspect he'll need things to go better around him if they want to win with him.

Livings and Roland are just BAD o-lineman, who shouldn't be starting for anyone in the NFL.

I agree maybe this so called talent on the offense is just not very talented. Chad has been droping balls all over the place so far, TO cant fight to win when the ball is thrown to him. Palmer accuracy is horrible, but maybe Chad and TO are just not getting open fast enough. Even when the o-line gives him time, Palmer has to wait forever just to throw the ball. Im tired of Palmer always trying to throw to the divas, when they are not even open. If its not there dont throw it, and check the ball down. I think Chad just needs to keep his mouth shut from now, he is not playing very good, and maybe thats what he needs to tell the media.

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They have to seriously consider starting Andre Smith this week. Roland is that bad

That Roland IS starting should tell you how ready Smith really is...

Roland had a poor game. Livings as well. Bobbie whiffed on the sack play. Overall, this line had a dreadful outing.

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I just don't think Carson is quite this bad. The last two games have been putrid no doubt, and I have no explanation. His mechanics have been crap, his reads have been crap, and his throws have been crap.

I think it's logical to expect him to improve, simply as a return to some sort of mean for him. He doesn't appear likely to return to his old form at any time though.

No doubt the 2005 Palmer is gone. It is pathetic, however, that we are talking about a pro quarterback in his seventh year (not counting his year on the bench in 2003) and thinking 'improve'. That's not a jab at you TDB. It's just that by now, Palmer shouldn't have to 'improve'. I was really concerned Palmer might lull us into a false sense of security by torching Carolina's defense. I guess that concern was for naught.

Face it guys, if this is our 2010 Carson Palmer, it's now time to start scouting qbs for the draft.

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I hate to say it but it's painfully obvious that CP is washed up. carolina is HORRIBLE, any other team with an average qb would've put them away early and not let them hang around.

short of trading for kolb we have to go to war with carson this year, but something needs to be done in the offseason. he is FINISIHED.

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On Palmer and his receivers:

1) Palmer yet again looked like crap. His mechanics are abysmal. His decisions are questionable at best. He's still throwing that weak out route that consistently gets picked off. Some say that he'll revert eventually to his usually stellar self; I say we haven't seen that guy since 2007. At this point, I'm worried that he is who we think he is, and it's not the guy we remember from 2005-2007.

2) That said, it ain't all his fault. Those throws where it looks like he tosses it straight to the other team? A lot of them look like choice routes or similar where he expects a receiver to take the route one way and it actually goes the other. This usually happens with Chad. Until Carson and Chad get on the same page with those reads, Brat needs to cut that out of the playbook.

3) I think the coaches need to be willing to approach him and tell him that his game needs to be rebuilt. It's tough with vets sometimes to have that conversation - see Favre, Brett - but I'm wondering how much they're getting on him to fix these persistent problems.

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Carson and Chad have been playing on the same team for how long, this should not be happening. Or maybe its that Chad is just not as good as he thinks he is. He dosnt seem to get open very fast, he drops alot of balls Chad is just not that good right now. This offense is just not very good, and the coaches must be blind, because i see no changes what so ever.

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The thing about Palmer's poor play is that it's strongly related to trying to throw the ball to 85. Palmer-to-Ocho was something like 4 catches/12 targets for 34 yards and a pick. TO was 4/8/42 and a pick. Meanwhile, Gresham and Shipley were targeted about 10 times and caught 7 for a combined 96 yards.

This is exactly what I am seeing. When we try to force the ball into Chad and TO the offense just stalls. In our week 2 game the announcers said Bratkowski told them he needs to make so many calls a week for each of these wr. I say screw them let them whine. The offense is at its best when we work from the inside(Benson, Gresham, Shipley) first to the outside(Chad, TO).

Also that playcalling before the end of the half is pathetic. Why do you even call a play that will come down short of the end zone, and why the f isnt Roland getting up there t spike the ball.

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Also a couple other points. Add me to the bandwagon sick of watching Livings suck it up at LG. He is just not getting it done at all.

Defense was stellar for the most part today. Point of interest, Last 2 games we have allowed 0 catches to the wide recievers in the first half. That tells you just how good Hall and Joseph have been. Also despite some peoples seemingly irrational dislike for him, Kieth Rivers should be the player of the game today for how many times he made the big stop after someone else was out of position or missed on a play. Every defense needs a guy like him, I can't wait to see our best lb line up of Johnson, Rey, Rivers. Dhani is just struggling to keep up a bit at this point.

Kevin Huber who i questioned a little last week did have his best game as a pro in my opinion. Have to give him credit for his work today.

Finally, remember people. We are complaining about a 2 touchdown win. I will take that over moral victories any day.

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Carolina might be 0-3, but their secondary isn't the reason why. They field a couple good corners. Their front seven played very well today too. Don't get me wrong, Palmer played a horrible football game. That the Panthers aren't very good is irrelevant though.

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We're stuck with him for now. Unless you'd rather have rapist Ben, Carson's still the best QB in the division. It is possible for 30 something QBs to turn it around. Boomer did it. He was horrible when the Bengals dumped him the first time but he was much better when he came back

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