Bengals at Panthers Pre-game discussion thread

[membengal]

I like the thought that Zim will put pressure on Claussen as opposed to playing back a bit like he did with Gradkowski.

Frankly, whether it was Claussen or Moore, this game concerns me because of Williams and Stewart. At any given time, one or both of those backs can go off. I would really like to see Zim come strong with some run blitzes early to try and put the game in Claussen's hands.

[membengal]

From Hobson's latest:

Zimmer has plenty of fodder to make sure the defense keep its edge against a quarterback making his first NFL start. His Bengals debut was spoiled by Ravens quarterback Joe Flacco’s NFL debut in the 2008 opener. And as a Bengal, Zimmer is 1-4 against rookie quarterbacks. “Every quarterback that has played in the NFL, I promise you, has won a lot of games in college and thrown for a lot of yards,” Zimmer said. Bruce Gradkowski wasn’t a rookie last year, but he’s a little-used guy that beat the Bengals in the last two minutes last year and Zimmer is still mad he didn’t blitz him on a fourth-and-12 completion that kept the sticks moving in the winning drive. “I forgot about that game,” Hall said. “It shows you have to be careful, you have to be smart defensively every week. If we play within the game plan, we’ll be all right. Anytime you play outside the game plan, you mess up the other 10 guys and that’s never good.” Gradkowski is a shining example that anyone throwing a ball is dangerous. In 2006 in Tampa, Gradkowski was a rookie and beat the Bengals in one of his first NFL starts. Yes, he needed a touchdown pass in the final seconds following a roughing the passer call to get a 14-13 win, but he won. Under Lewis, the Bengals are 6-7 against rookie quarterbacks and 1-2 against guys making their first NFL start. They lost to Flacco and the Niners’ Shaun Hill in 2007 and beat the Rams’ Brock Berlin in 2007. So, all signs would seem to point to Zimmer staying simple.

The rest of it:

/>http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/Another-grind-job/c0fe33a7-288b-4070-8fb5-1c5b5a2ea0d6

[membengal]

Bengals against rookie QBs under Lewis

2003: Win vs. Ravens Kyle Boller (2 TDs, 1 INT)

2004: Loss vs. Steelers Ben Roethlisberger (1 TD, 0 INT)

2004: Loss vs. Steelers Ben Roethlisberger (1 TD, 0 INT)

2004: Win vs. Giants Eli Manning (0 TD, 1 INT)

2005: Win vs. Bears Kyle Orton (0 TD, 5 INTs)

2005: Win vs. Browns Charlie Frye (1 TD, 1 INT)

2006: Loss vs. Bucs Bruce Gradkowski (2 TDs, 1 INT)

2007: Win vs. Rams Brock Berlin (0 TD, 1 INT)

2008: Loss vs. Ravens Joe Flacco (0 TD, 0 INT)

2008: Loss vs. Ravens Joe Flacco (2 TDs, 0 INT)

2009: Win vs. Lions Matthew Stafford (1 TD, 2 INT)

2009: Loss vs. Jets Mark Sanchez (0 TD, 0 INT)

2009: Loss vs. Jets Mark Sanchez (0 TD, 0 INT)*

[bwillycuse]

good grief.

*shrug*

You have a poster saying how it will be so easy to beat Carolina since Tampa Bay was able to beat them, and you're OK with someone dismissing a 2-0 team when we are just 1-1 ourselves?

so....right back atcha with the 'good grief' response

sheesh

A TB team ranked bottom three in the league preseason beat the worst team in the league (Browns - barely and with a bad pick 6)and beat Carolina in Carolina - kind of makes Carolina look like a pretty bad team.

The logic is sound. Record doesn't mean anything at this point. TB hasn't beaten anyone. Their SOS is probably last in the league.

So I assume you are saying TB is better than the Bengals or Ravens or any team that is 1-1 because they are 2-0?

But on any given Sunday in the NFL. At least we don't have to play KC. phew - lucky us.

Oh - espn Power rankings have TB at 21st in the league. They dont believe either.

We should crush Carolina. They lost to TB at home.

Ill be rooting for TB this week vs Pitt though.

[HairOnFire]

I like the thought that Zim will put pressure on Claussen as opposed to playing back a bit like he did with Gradkowski.

Put me in the camp that says you always make bad or inexperienced QB's decide where to throw the ball rather than bailing them out by blitzing, thereby giving them an easy read and a handy place to throw the ball against single coverage.

Make me the boss and I'd overplay the run or predominantly pass rush with just four down lineman. Because I'm betting Claussen, like Joe Flacco, can't beat this defense straight up, can't put together enough sustained drives to win, and won't be able to play 4 quarters without making multiple mistakes and turnovers.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Put me in the camp that says you always make bad or inexperienced QB's decide where to throw the ball rather than bailing them out by blitzing, thereby giving them an easy read and a handy place to throw the ball against single coverage.

I'm in the camp of making them beat you with the hard throw under pressure. If you can get enough pressure with 4, then great. But blitz if you have to instead of giving him time to think. Confuse him with different reads so he doesn't know who's rushing. Blitz at will, but take away the dump-off and the 'chuck it deep' route by keeping LB close and S deep. Make him beat you with mid-range routes under pressure, even single coverage with CB when necessary. Rare is the young QB who can stand into a 10-yard out under pressure, even if the guy's open he'll probably miss.

In other words, give him the Mike Zimmer vs. Joe Flacco rush instead of the Chucky Blitz.

[membengal]

Yeah, all things being equal, I don't want him with time, I want him pressured and having to make hurried decisions. The mistake they made with Gradkowski in Oakland was letting him get comfortable. Zim has said exactly that upon reflection.

The Panthers will run, a ton. But when Claussen drops back to pass, I want Zim to get guys in his face. If they can do that from a four-man rush, fine. If not, pass blitz.

Also, I hope the Bengals get religion on the need to have a spy on Deangelo Williams on screens and dumpoffs.

[bwillycuse]

Im with the non-blitz and stay home mentality.

Stop their strength which is the run. Rush 4 and make the rookie beat you. Of course you mix it up and disguise it up a bit to confuse the rook, but I don't want them sneaking a few runs by us while we are sending the house.

I really want to see more pressure from front 4 though.

[HairOnFire]

The Panthers will run, a ton. But when Claussen drops back to pass, I want Zim to get guys in his face. If they can do that from a four-man rush, fine. If not, pass blitz.

I'm good with that. All I'm saying is don't go into the game looking to rattle THAT kid with a bunch of jailbreak blitzes. Take the run and the deep ball away from the guy and make him throw the ball.

[cincyhokie]

I think we're going to see a huge game on both sides of the ball. The next 3 games can set the tone for this season.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I'm good with that. All I'm saying is don't go into the game looking to rattle THAT kid with a bunch of jailbreak blitzes. Take the run and the deep ball away from the guy and make him throw the ball.

Not jailbreak, no. But I'm all about showing 7 and dropping 2-3 of them into coverage, disguising schemes and personnel. If only we had a guy who can play DE and LB capably with speed at the edge....

...Oh wait, we do. Get Mr. Johnson in the game early and often.

[cHaD711Johnson]

This game scares me.

[kingwilly]

Also, I hope the Bengals get religion on the need to have a spy on Deangelo Williams on screens and dumpoffs.

Agree, let's just hope its not Dhani...

[skyline]

good grief.

*shrug*

You have a poster saying how it will be so easy to beat Carolina since Tampa Bay was able to beat them, and you're OK with someone dismissing a 2-0 team when we are just 1-1 ourselves?

so....right back atcha with the 'good grief' response

sheesh

Does 2-0 make a team good? If so, I guess the Bucs and Chiefs are going to be unstoppable forces this season. They'll at least be a heck of a lot better than those 1-1 Colts.

I agree, though, that Carolina shouldn't be overlooked, and I think that's the point you're making. The Bengals have proven themselves to be very vulnerable to these types of games. Without looking at the stats, it feels as if we lose at least 2 of these each season.

[HairOnFire]

I'm good with that. All I'm saying is don't go into the game looking to rattle THAT kid with a bunch of jailbreak blitzes. Take the run and the deep ball away from the guy and make him throw the ball.

Not jailbreak, no. But I'm all about showing 7 and dropping 2-3 of them into coverage, disguising schemes and personnel. If only we had a guy who can play DE and LB capably with speed at the edge....

...Oh wait, we do. Get Mr. Johnson in the game early and often.

According to Joe Reedy's latest Michael Johnson played 25 snaps at DE against the Ravens after playing none at DE against the Patriots. And if you recall, that's exactly the type of thing I had begged for after the blowout.

Also of note, Reedy shows how Gresham and Shipley's snaps were reduced by 20 each, Reggy Kelly's snaps were increased by a nearly equal amount, as I desired. Finally, In a move I didn't ask for and don't exactly understand Daniel Coats apparently no longer plays on special teams....replaced by either Peerman or Reggie Nelson.

[TJJackson]

Does 2-0 make a team good?

No, but if we're going to dismiss teams as Pushovers, let's not dismiss 2-0 teams. They found a way to win, regardless of opponents.

I guess the Bucs and Chiefs are going to be unstoppable forces this season

Lots of teams have gone from famine to feast in a single season. Not saying these two will - but stranger things have happened.

They'll at least be a heck of a lot better than those 1-1 Colts.

I dont think anyone is in danger of dismissing a team quarterbacked by a future first ballot hall of famer

I agree, though, that Carolina shouldn't be overlooked, and I think that's the point you're making. The Bengals have proven themselves to be very vulnerable to these types of games. Without looking at the stats, it feels as if we lose at least 2 of these each season.

Exactly - with the addition that one especially should not dismiss a team as a pushover based on last year's record when this year's record is (so far) undefeated

[ArmyBengal]

Replaced by either Peerman or Reggie Nelson.

First time i've heard his named mentioned since the trade.

Anyone heard anything else about him ??

Just curious...

[TJJackson]

Replaced by either Peerman or Reggie Nelson.

First time i've heard his named mentioned since the trade.

Anyone heard anything else about him ??

Just curious...

after week 1, he was the leading special teams tackler

[ArmyBengal]

Replaced by either Peerman or Reggie Nelson.

First time i've heard his named mentioned since the trade.

Anyone heard anything else about him ??

Just curious...

after week 1, he was the leading special teams tackler

Can't imagine how I missed that amazing feat...

Week 1 sucked !!!

Hope we see something more from him, but must admit to loving what Crocker has been doing to this point.

[derekshank]

You can't assume the Panthers are a win simply because they are a feast or famine kind of team.

They are as inconsistent week to week as they come. They were 8-8 last year. They were blown out several times. But they also won several games in convincing fashion against very good teams.

For instance, the beat the Vikings, the Saints, the Giants, and the Cardinals last year by the average score of 31-12.

You can't sleep on them, rookie QB or not.

[Trevor]

They have no peppers, but an adequate D. But their pass D is very suspect, they have an inteauging reciever in Dwayne Jarret, but he's not used. I fell We give ced a big average but TO and chad go off.

[membengal]

You can't assume the Panthers are a win simply because they are a feast or famine kind of team.

They are as inconsistent week to week as they come. They were 8-8 last year. They were blown out several times. But they also won several games in convincing fashion against very good teams.

For instance, the beat the Vikings, the Saints, the Giants, and the Cardinals last year by the average score of 31-12.

You can't sleep on them, rookie QB or not.

With their potential running game, not sure why anyone would chalk this one up as a "win". I really want the Bengals to get out to an early lead and take as much of the running game away from Carolina as possible.

[volcom69]

I think this game will tell us alot about there run defense. They held Rice to under 100 yards, but he only ran it 16 times. I think they need to do a better job of stoping the run this week as Carolina will continue to pound the ball, unless the Bengals get up big early. So i hope the run defense is ready!

[Stripes]

Coming into the season I felt that the run defense would be the Bengals' biggest strength. Through the first two games I've been pretty disappointed, granted against two teams that didn't run much.

[volcom69]

Coming into the season I felt that the run defense would be the Bengals' biggest strength. Through the first two games I've been pretty disappointed, granted against two teams that didn't run much.

The Ravens are still a so called running team. Its not that they were horrible against the run, but i think its something the defense can get much better at. They let Ray get away from them on the one run play, but he was still getting 4-5 yards it seemed alot. This week i think they will have to do a much better job at containing the RBs.