Offseason Moves/Priorities/Draft a WR

[HairOnFire]

Is drafting a WR very early a priority? Perhaps predictably, I'll say....NO.

Granted, the Bengals are in great need of an upgrade in pure talent and speed, but Cincy has traditionally featured "Clockwork Orange" offensive schemes that are so complicated, and so overwhelmingly based upon perfect timing, few college wideouts can step in and play early. Making matters even worse, few of those who manage the trick of playing early actually reward the team by playing well consistently. Examples are too numerous to mention, but for Bengal fans they range from Chris Henry's mostly wasted vast physical skills to Bubba Caldwell's repeated concentration lapses in clutch situations to Jerome Simpson's utter failure to earn any playing time whatsoever.

So, it's a veteran WR for me, please.

Specifically, Malcolm Floyd.

[membengal]

I have a hunch this thread will NOT get Hair's stamp of approval.

Oh, not true. Not true at all.

Truth be told, I'm in a reflective mood today and a thread like THIS one might come in handy.

Sadly, I've just read THIS thread from start to finish and I can't figure out what THIS thread is even about.

Wideouts, offensive line, Dhani needs to go, fire Brat, and of course.....a dozen pinheads lining up to say how outraged they were when the Bengals didn't draft Jackson. Frankly, THIS thread seems to be about everything....and yeah, that does get my stamp of approval.

And just for the record, I didn't give a s**t about passing on Jackson. In fact, I didn't want ANY wideout at all early in the draft. Rather, I wanted defense, more defense, and a blocker or two.

Still do.

At the time I wrote that, it was the first reply in a stand alone thread begging for the drafting of a wide receiver in the first round...that thread was then combined with at least two others, leading to some confusing reading I am certain.

[ArmyBengal]

I think the merges got out of control due to the fact that the board would have spanned 3 pages of threads with the same content without them.

People just need to relax and add comments to the appropriate thread as opposed to starting new ones without looking.

[richmond_mat]

1) Sign Zimmer

1a) Fire brat

1c) banish shane graham

2) get simpson involved or release him.

3) draft linebackers, receivers (really, really tall ones so carson doesn't look pathetic) and beef for both sides of the ball

get a GM to run the circus

Draft Linebackers? Why? Brandon Johnson & Jeanty are only RFA's next year and Brandon should get a multi year contract.

Unless its the 5th round or later we shouldn't touch linebacker in the draft.

Correct me if I am wrong but aren't Jeanty and rey have broken legs. Maybe they will be 100% maybe not. Jones is OLD. johnson has a future. So you have rivers an old guy, two with broken legs and a couple I've never heard of. So yeah I am thinking about linebackers. Maybe by April I will not be thinking this way.

[JoePong]

Is drafting a WR very early a priority? Perhaps predictably, I'll say....NO.

Granted, the Bengals are in great need of an upgrade in pure talent and speed, but Cincy has traditionally featured "Clockwork Orange" offensive schemes that are so complicated, and so overwhelmingly based upon perfect timing, few college wideouts can step in and play early. Making matters even worse, few of those who manage the trick of playing early actually reward the team by playing well consistently. Examples are too numerous to mention, but for Bengal fans they range from Chris Henry's mostly wasted vast physical skills to Bubba Caldwell's repeated concentration lapses in clutch situations to Jerome Simpson's utter failure to earn any playing time whatsoever.

So, it's a veteran WR for me, please.

Specifically, Malcolm Floyd.

Sure it would be great to sign a veteran WR. But we are still going to eventually need to draft some young playmaking WRs to replenish the position. Chad and Lavaranues are getting old, we lost Chris Henry, and as far as I know, we have no #1 Pro Bowl quality WRS waiting in the wings. We need to make sure Palmer is always surrounded by weapons.

[HairOnFire]

Sure it would be great to sign a veteran WR. But we are still going to eventually need to draft some young playmaking WRs to replenish the position.

It's an argument that never ends. How many draft picks should this team burn on wideouts to fill a position that craves talent specifically because of the high number of failed draft picks previously made.

We need to make sure Palmer is always surrounded by weapons.

Weapons he's got. What he lacks are enough effective weapons to thrive. And because he needs thos weapons right now, if not yesterday, I'd make a veteran upgrade a priority. In fact, I'd make finding a long-term replacement for the departed TJ a priority, and in my opinion I can get that replacement in Floyd, a still young wideout with the size the Bengals like who runs precise routes and thrives in the intermediate passing game.

As for the bigger named wideouts previously mentioned, well...yes to them to. (If Chad is traded.)

[Spor_tees]

Sure it would be great to sign a veteran WR. But we are still going to eventually need to draft some young playmaking WRs to replenish the position.

It's an argument that never ends. How many draft picks should this team burn on wideouts to fill a position that craves talent specifically because of the high number of failed draft picks previously made.

We need to make sure Palmer is always surrounded by weapons.

Weapons he's got. What he lacks are enough effective weapons to thrive. And because he needs thos weapons right now, if not yesterday, I'd make a veteran upgrade a priority. In fact, I'd make finding a long-term replacement for the departed TJ a priority, and in my opinion I can get that replacement in Floyd, a still young wideout with the size the Bengals like who runs precise routes and thrives in the intermediate passing game.

As for the bigger named wideouts previously mentioned, well...yes to them to. (If Chad is traded.)

You stated earlier that the Bengal's offense was so complicated that young WR's had a hard time getting on the field, I don't see that. I think it is just a combination of Carson being too much of a rhythm QB and with the change to a run first offense he can't hit the strides he could in a hurry up. The other factor is, the Bengals depend too much on timing patterns when they do pass and don't just let the receivers use their athletic talent. That comes down to coaching and game planning, which is not complicated, just the wrong approach.

With all that said, the Bengals just don't have the team speed to spread the defense anymore. The long ball was nonexistent this year and quite frankly I can't even seem to find a long ball threat. I don't care how tall a guy is in the draft, if he is fast enough to get behind the DB's the Bengals need to take a look at him.

[HairOnFire]

I think it is just a combination of Carson being too much of a rhythm QB and with the change to a run first offense he can't hit the strides he could in a hurry up.

Be careful now, because the rhythm method doesn't work. Nor does any argument that's based upon Palmer being unable to perform competently in a less demanding QB role. Far more likely IMHO, his recent inability to throw accurately becomes compounded by a near total ability to carry out a simple play action fake.

The other factor is, the Bengals depend too much on timing patterns when they do pass and don't just let the receivers use their athletic talent. That comes down to coaching and game planning, which is not complicated, just the wrong approach.

Perhaps not. Because it seems to me the last time this teams offense functioned on a high level it was due to being manned by veteran wideouts who had played in Brat's scheme for many years, if not their entire careers. Thus, vastly fewer plays breaking down due to miscommunication. And like Joe Gibbs confirmed, the Bengals passing game features way too many examples of players guessing. Worse, because the ball is typically in the air before a WR makes his cut there's no chance to pull the ball back if that WR rounds off his route, breaks in instead of out, or fails to seperate from a defender.

[TJJackson]

There is the age old question of

1) do we need better WRs

or

2) do we need better pass blockers who can give time for the existing WRs to get open and Carson to find them

Lapham says we run block well, but pass blocking, not so much.

I think we need a bit of an upgrade to both, but would argue for OL first

That said, when we make our pick, if given the choice between a good OL and a world class WR, gimme the WR. If the WR is good and the OL is world class, give me the OL. Give me the player that represents the greatest overall improvement for the team in 1, and then in r2 to r4 I can fill the other gaps

I still say the first 4 rounds need to get us Bobbie's replacement, a starting S, a pass rushing DE, and a WR

[Ickey44]

I've seen a lot of people on here say we need another safety. Is there something wrong with Ndukwe, Williams(if he's resigned), and Crocker? With the exception of Nelson, I thought our safety play was pretty good this year.

[kingwilly]

I've seen a lot of people on here say we need another safety. Is there something wrong with Ndukwe, Williams(if he's resigned), and Crocker? With the exception of Nelson, I thought our safety play was pretty good this year.

Ndukwe hits hard but shows a lack of discipline here and there, as we saw on one of Keller's long catches in the playoff game. He just freestyles a bit too much.

Nelson will get better. Let's all recall Hall getting smoked quite a bit his rookie year.

Signing William is a good start but his injuries are now quite common.

Bottom line, they need depth.

[TJJackson]

Is there something wrong with Ndukwe, Williams(if he's resigned), and Crocker?

Let's say hope springs eternal, and I am hoping for the Bengals own young version of Ed Reed or Troy Polamalu

I dont ask for much, do I?

Crocker I like, NDukwe I like as a backup, Williams is imho old slow and fragile.

[HairOnFire]

I've seen a lot of people on here say we need another safety. Is there something wrong with Ndukwe, Williams(if he's resigned), and Crocker? With the exception of Nelson, I thought our safety play was pretty good this year.

I'm guessing it's a combination of sorts. Fans are tired of watching Baltimore and Pittsburgh have a clear advantage over the Bengals at a critical position and they want an upgrade. So knowing that, what's the normal reaction after scanning early draft projections point to one of the most talented AND deepest safety classes in recent memory?

Gimmee.

And speaking now only for myself, I think Roy Williams is done.

[Ickey44]

Ok, I get those points, but shouldn't the offense be addressed first? I mean, that was our huge weakness this year.

Isn't this draft pretty deep at safety, or is that another position I'm thinking of?

[HairOnFire]

Ok, I get those points, but shouldn't the offense be addressed first? I mean, that was our huge weakness this year.

Again, I can only speak for myself now. And in my example, I've only recently taken my first glance at this years draft rankings and projections. My immediate first impression was that I didn't like how things fell.

This is not shocking. In fact, it happens every year.

All of the projected 1st round wideouts underwhelm me with the sole exception of Damien Williams, a guy who hasn't shown up YET as a 1t round pick on most value boards. For all I know he never will. Furthermore, I have yet to see anyone project him as a player the Bengals should be interested in. So somebody is wrong about this one, me or the world, and for the moment I'm willing to assume it's me. But knowing that doesn't make me like the other options any better.

More? I don't want a TE very badly in the first place...so imagine how I feel when I see a wounded one emerge as the player most often linked to the Bengals 1st round pick. Are you guys actually trying to piss me off?

More? I've only seen video snippets of the blocker most often linked to the Bengals. Very impressive. But I'll admit I've never seen him play a single game. So that's that and I'm not going to have very much to say about the Samoan from Idaho until much later. In fact, I'm not even going to try to spell his name.

NADS!

Meanwhile, at this frozen moment in time, it seems like several defensive players who play positions of need might fall effortlessly into the Bengals laps....especially at both safety positions. The fit seems to be there. Furthermore, every player I'd be willing to trade up a few slots for is a defensive prospect.

But it's STILL early, ehh? We know the player rankings, mock drafts, and value boards we're looking at today will be next weeks garbage.

[ArmyBengal]

Ok, I get those points, but shouldn't the offense be addressed first? I mean, that was our huge weakness this year.

Again, I can only speak for myself now. And in my example, I've only recently taken my first glance at this years draft rankings and projections. My immediate first impression was that I didn't like how things fell.

This is not shocking. In fact, it happens every year.

All of the projected 1st round wideouts underwhelm me with the sole exception of Damien Williams, a guy who hasn't shown up YET as a 1t round pick on most value boards. For all I know he never will. Furthermore, I have yet to see anyone project him as a player the Bengals should be interested in. So somebody is wrong about this one, me or the world, and for the moment I'm willing to assume it's me. But knowing that doesn't make me like the other options any better.

More? I don't want a TE very badly in the first place...so imagine how I feel when I see a wounded one emerge as the player most often linked to the Bengals 1st round pick. Are you guys actually trying to piss me off?

More? I've only seen video snippets of the blocker most often linked to the Bengals. Very impressive. But I'll admit I've never seen him play a single game. So that's that and I'm not going to have very much to say about the Samoan from Idaho until much later. In fact, I'm not even going to try to spell his name.

NADS!

Meanwhile, at this frozen moment in time, it seems like several defensive players who play positions of need might fall effortlessly into the Bengals laps....especially at both safety positions. The fit seems to be there. Furthermore, every player I'd be willing to trade up a few slots for is a defensive prospect.

But it's STILL early, ehh? We know the player rankings, mock drafts, and value boards we're looking at today will be next weeks garbage.

When asked what WR I liked, Williams was the player I liked that I thought was going to be there when the Bengals picked as well. When you here things like, "Best route runner to come out of the college ranks since FOREVER", it sure is appealing. Couple that with good size and speed and you have something the Bengals offense is looking for. That being said, if we forego the WR route in the first, yes, the kid from Idaho is EXACTLY who I want. Iupati is an absolute beast that will improve the pass blocking problems this team DOES in fact have.

[HairOnFire]

Iupati is an absolute beast that will improve the pass blocking problems this team DOES in fact have.

I like what I read and I like what I see.

But I admit he's virtually unknown to me.

So, here's my first question for the Iupati Pimps.

I'm reading about great size, balance, footwork, and elite pulling skills. Great stuff.

So why isn't he considered a OLT prospect?

[ArmyBengal]

Iupati is an absolute beast that will improve the pass blocking problems this team DOES in fact have.

I like what I read and I like what I see.

But I admit he's virtually unknown to me.

So, here's my first question for the Iupati Pimps.

I'm reading about great size, balance, footwork, and elite pulling skills. Great stuff.

So why isn't he considered a OLT prospect?

There are many outlets that think he will definitely get looked at as an OLT, which shows versatility, but may end up pushing him up out of our reach. That being said, I think leaving him at the position he's been playing at Guard will best suit him on our particular o-line. I'm all about keeping Bobbie and would be was pleased with a line consisting of Whit, Iupati, Cook, Bobbie, and Big Dre, but Bobbie may not be back and he's getting up there as well. It just seems like the smartest thing to do unless people would be happy with a line looking like Whit, Livings, Cook, Mathis, and Big Dre. That line doesn't make me happy at all if Boobie goes down.

Bottomline for me is, he smacks of the perfect Guard at the next level and exactly what this line will benefit most from. IF we go O-line.

[mgi]

I've seen a lot of people on here say we need another safety. Is there something wrong with Ndukwe, Williams(if he's resigned), and Crocker? With the exception of Nelson, I thought our safety play was pretty good this year.

I'm guessing it's a combination of sorts. Fans are tired of watching Baltimore and Pittsburgh have a clear advantage over the Bengals at a critical position and they want an upgrade. So knowing that, what's the normal reaction after scanning early draft projections point to one of the most talented AND deepest safety classes in recent memory?

Gimmee.

And speaking now only for myself, I think Roy Williams is done.

I never thought Maualuga would drop to Round 2, so here is for hoping that Eric Berry from Tennessee can drop to overall pick #21!

I know that I started one of these three or four threads saying that we need a WR, but I was perhaps being a little reactionary. As long as we draft one on the first day that is neither a reach nor a "project."

[ArmyBengal]

It can go many different ways this year, prior to free agency of course. We could go Guard, Safety, WR, or even DT and progress from there, but I suspect it will just depend on the value of the need at that point in time. Should be fun to see how this turns out knowing Zimmer is going to be back and keep the defense moving forward.

[AGrizzlyBaer]

I've seen a lot of people on here say we need another safety. Is there something wrong with Ndukwe, Williams(if he's resigned), and Crocker? With the exception of Nelson, I thought our safety play was pretty good this year.

I'm guessing it's a combination of sorts. Fans are tired of watching Baltimore and Pittsburgh have a clear advantage over the Bengals at a critical position and they want an upgrade. So knowing that, what's the normal reaction after scanning early draft projections point to one of the most talented AND deepest safety classes in recent memory?

Gimmee.

And speaking now only for myself, I think Roy Williams is done.

I never thought Maualuga would drop to Round 2, so here is for hoping that Eric Berry from Tennessee can drop to overall pick #21!

I know that I started one of these three or four threads saying that we need a WR, but I was perhaps being a little reactionary. As long as we draft one on the first day that is neither a reach nor a "project."

Not sure Berry will make it out of the top 5, but if you are looking at safety another USC guy in Mays could be falling that far.

[kingwilly]

I've seen a lot of people on here say we need another safety. Is there something wrong with Ndukwe, Williams(if he's resigned), and Crocker? With the exception of Nelson, I thought our safety play was pretty good this year.

I'm guessing it's a combination of sorts. Fans are tired of watching Baltimore and Pittsburgh have a clear advantage over the Bengals at a critical position and they want an upgrade. So knowing that, what's the normal reaction after scanning early draft projections point to one of the most talented AND deepest safety classes in recent memory?

Gimmee.

And speaking now only for myself, I think Roy Williams is done.

I never thought Maualuga would drop to Round 2, so here is for hoping that Eric Berry from Tennessee can drop to overall pick #21!

I know that I started one of these three or four threads saying that we need a WR, but I was perhaps being a little reactionary. As long as we draft one on the first day that is neither a reach nor a "project."

Not sure Berry will make it out of the top 5, but if you are looking at safety another USC guy in Mays could be falling that far.

Kam Chancellor is a player who had a very good college career.

I'd take him in r3, should we get a crack at him. Similar style player as Crocker. Durable. Big/fast.

Here is my pre-mock mock:

r1 - sign/trade with Denver for Marshall (also sending Collins or Livings their way)

r2 - Demaryius Thomas (WR) or Jared Odrick (DT) or (if Odom's heel is jacked) George Selvie (DE)

r3 - Kam Chancellor (FS) or Tyson Aluaha (DT) or Eric Decker (WR)

past that.... no ideas

[Kazkal]

It can go many different ways this year, prior to free agency of course. We could go Guard, Safety, WR, or even DT and progress from there, but I suspect it will just depend on the value of the need at that point in time. Should be fun to see how this turns out knowing Zimmer is going to be back and keep the defense moving forward.

If his thing is pulling wouldn't be better suited for LG? Well I guess when you have Whit as a LT could go either way

Not sure Berry will make it out of the top 5, but if you are looking at safety another USC guy in Mays could be falling that far.

Indeed who thought Reed would fall to 24, It happens.

[jjakq27]

List of Bengals free agents from Joe Reedy's blog:

http://cincinnati.co...ree-agent-list/

No. Player Pos. Exp. Type of FA

5 Jordan Palmer QB 2 Restricted*

17 Shayne Graham K 9 Unrestricted

20 David Jones CB 3 Restricted

23 Jeremi Johnson FB 7 Unrestricted

27 Larry Johnson RB 7 Unrestricted

31 Roy Williams S 8 Unrestricted

34 Kyries Hebert S 2 Restricted*

52 Abdul Hodge LB 4 Restricted!

53 Rashad Jeanty LB 4 Restricted!

59 Brandon Johnson LB 4 Restricted!

62 Nate Livings G 2 Restricted*

63 Bobbie Williams G 10 Unrestricted

64 Kyle Cook C 2 Restricted*

66 Evan Mathis G 5 Restricted!

74 Dennis Roland T 2 Restricted*

82 Reggie Kelly TE 11 Unrestricted

86 Dan Coats TE 3 Restricted

88 J.P. Foschi TE 3 Restricted

92 Frostee Rucker DE 4 Restricted!

96 Shaun Smith DT 6 Unrestricted

99 Tank Johnson DT 6 Unrestricted

* With two years or less are classified as exclusive rights free agents

! Would be restricted instead of unrestricted in an uncapped year.

[Kazkal]

Ya uncapped year isn't all that bad,let's tag several players who would other wise be UFA's,Giving us a chance to sway people like Brandon Johnson in to a multi year deal vs playing for a tender contract.

Players I want back

31 Roy Williams S 8 Unrestricted even if it's not as a starter but a Backup/Special teamer

34 Kyries Hebert S 2 Restricted* Will be tough to keep if we Draft a SS but the guy is a stud on teams.

53 Rashad Jeanty LB 4 Restricted! Serviceable backup don't see him costing much

59 Brandon Johnson LB 4 Restricted! Would like to see him be Maualugas Replacement

64 Kyle Cook C 2 Restricted* Sign him long term

66 Evan Mathis G 5 Restricted! Seemed like love for Mathis died down past few week,Still was impressed by his play overall though still confused why had livings in over him IMO Mathis was the better play.

88 J.P. Foschi TE 3 Restricted Not as a starter but 2nd or 3rd TE with Coffman...

Players I could care less either way

23 Jeremi Johnson FB 7 Unrestricted I really wouldn't mind JJ

20 David Jones CB 3 Restricted

5 Jordan Palmer QB 2 Restricted*

52 Abdul Hodge LB 4 Restricted! Be tough if Maualuga moves to Middle and having DHani still

62 Nate Livings G 2 Restricted*

63 Bobbie Williams G 10 Unrestricted

74 Dennis Roland T 2 Restricted*

82 Reggie Kelly TE 11 Unrestricted

Players I want gone

17 Shayne Graham K 9 Unrestricted

27 Larry Johnson RB 7 Unrestricted

86 Dan Coats TE 3 Restricted

96 Shaun Smith DT 6 Unrestricted

92 Frostee Rucker DE 4 Restricted! Unless they have Robert Geathers drop 20 lbs to serve as a passrusher we have enough elephant DE's as is.