All things Jonathan Fanene AND Mike Zimmer

[Ickey44]

Well, yeah, the 85 argument gets old. But it's fun to argue with Agrizzle. It's like trying to get a blind man to appreciate a beautiful picture.

[gregstephens]

Well, yeah, the 85 argument gets old. But it's fun to argue with Agrizzle. It's like trying to get a blind man to appreciate a beautiful picture.

Been there.

And giz...

[TJJackson]

to argue with Agrizzle. It's like trying to get a blind man to appreciate a beautiful picture.

Well, in this case, said blind man is actually sighted but refuses to open his eyes, and if he feels slighted, will offer to meet you behind the tetherball courts after 7th bell, err, I mean after "semipro" football practice (whatever that is) to beat you up

[Ickey44]

to argue with Agrizzle. It's like trying to get a blind man to appreciate a beautiful picture.

Well, in this case, said blind man is actually sighted but refuses to open his eyes, and if he feels slighted, will offer to meet you behind the tetherball courts after 7th bell, err, I mean after "semipro" football practice (whatever that is) to beat you up

O'Doyle rules!!

[gregstephens]

to argue with Agrizzle. It's like trying to get a blind man to appreciate a beautiful picture.

Well, in this case, said blind man is actually sighted but refuses to open his eyes, and if he feels slighted, will offer to meet you behind the tetherball courts after 7th bell, err, I mean after "semipro" football practice (whatever that is) to beat you up

O'Doyle rules!!

I hate when you do this. Ok, I can see the family in the car (station wagon maybe?) chanting this as it goes off the cliff.

What's the *&%* movie?

[gregstephens]

to argue with Agrizzle. It's like trying to get a blind man to appreciate a beautiful picture.

Well, in this case, said blind man is actually sighted but refuses to open his eyes, and if he feels slighted, will offer to meet you behind the tetherball courts after 7th bell, err, I mean after "semipro" football practice (whatever that is) to beat you up

O'Doyle rules!!

I hate when you do this. Ok, I can see the family in the car (station wagon maybe?) chanting this as it goes off the cliff.

What's the *&%* movie?

Never mind...found it. And man am I ashamed of myself.

[Ickey44]

to argue with Agrizzle. It's like trying to get a blind man to appreciate a beautiful picture.

Well, in this case, said blind man is actually sighted but refuses to open his eyes, and if he feels slighted, will offer to meet you behind the tetherball courts after 7th bell, err, I mean after "semipro" football practice (whatever that is) to beat you up

O'Doyle rules!!

I hate when you do this. Ok, I can see the family in the car (station wagon maybe?) chanting this as it goes off the cliff.

What's the *&%* movie?

Never mind...found it. And man am I ashamed of myself.

C'mon, Greg!!! How did you NOT know?

[gregstephens]

to argue with Agrizzle. It's like trying to get a blind man to appreciate a beautiful picture.

Well, in this case, said blind man is actually sighted but refuses to open his eyes, and if he feels slighted, will offer to meet you behind the tetherball courts after 7th bell, err, I mean after "semipro" football practice (whatever that is) to beat you up

O'Doyle rules!!

I hate when you do this. Ok, I can see the family in the car (station wagon maybe?) chanting this as it goes off the cliff.

What's the *&%* movie?

Never mind...found it. And man am I ashamed of myself.

C'mon, Greg!!! How did you NOT know?

[HairOnFire]

So, what was this thread about?

No matter.

Last night I watched the Steeler/Bengal game again courtesy of the NFL Networks "Replay" broadcast, and I focused on defensive line play yet again. No charting of plays mind you, but I was watching closely to see how the Bengals were managing so much pressure without Antwan Odom.

A few observations...

Brandon Johnson seemed to be everywhere, but in fact could always be found in one place. That being, either lined up within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage, or if checking a split second later....five yards behind it. In short, I'd offer a fairly conservative guess Johnson rushed the passer on roughly 85% of the snaps he played....something the Bengals never ask of Keith Rivers.

With only a few exceptions, all on 2nd down, the Bengals use a traditional two DT lineup only on 1st down. While hardly shocking in itself, I hadn't realized how few snaps Tank Johnson and Pat Sims are being given. For example, those two players not only share roughly the same number of snaps as fellow DT Domata Peko receives, but my boy Frostee Rucker lines up inside as a DT as often as Sims and the Tanker, combined.

Against the Steelers, the Bengals 3rd down D-Line package...Geathers, Rucker, Fanene, and Michael Johnson...was remarkably productive in regards to sacks, hurries, and tipped or blocked passes....shutting the Steerers down in nearly every critical situation. The improvement in this group is remarkable, and almost certainly the direct result of the Bengals finally being able to bookend Robert Geathers with a quick twitch pass rusher like Michael Johnson.

Last, a closer examinations shows Jonathan Fanene remains the weakest link in the chain due to his habit of crashing wildly inside on some plays...thereby surrendering outside containment. To be fair, that move produced more than one big play for the Bengal defense, but was also a big reason three of the Steelers best offensive plays were run directly at the empty hole Fanene had blown out of.

[kingwilly]

So, what was this thread about?

No matter.

Last night I watched the Steeler/Bengal game again courtesy of the NFL Networks "Replay" broadcast, and I focused on defensive line play yet again. No charting of plays mind you, but I was watching closely to see how the Bengals were managing so much pressure without Antwan Odom.

A few observations...

Brandon Johnson seemed to be everywhere, but in fact could always be found in one place. That being, either lined up within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage, or if checking a split second later....five yards behind it. In short, I'd offer a fairly conservative guess Johnson rushed the passer on roughly 85% of the snaps he played....something the Bengals never ask of Keith Rivers.

With only a few exceptions, all on 2nd down, the Bengals use a traditional two DT lineup only on 1st down. While hardly shocking in itself, I hadn't realized how few snaps Tank Johnson and Pat Sims are being given. For example, those two players not only share roughly the same number of snaps as fellow DT Domata Peko receives, but my boy Frostee Rucker lines up inside as a DT as often as Sims and the Tanker, combined.

Against the Steelers, the Bengals 3rd down D-Line package...Geathers, Rucker, Fanene, and Michael Johnson...was remarkably productive in regards to sacks, hurries, and tipped or blocked passes....shutting the Steerers down in nearly every critical situation. The improvement in this group is remarkable, and almost certainly the direct result of the Bengals finally being able to bookend Robert Geathers with a quick twitch pass rusher like Michael Johnson.

Last, a closer examinations shows Jonathan Fanene remains the weakest link in the chain due to his habit of crashing wildly inside on some plays...thereby surrendering outside containment. To be fair, that move produced more than one big play for the Bengal defense, but was also a big reason three of the Steelers best offensive plays were run directly at the empty hole Fanene had blown out of.

Saw it last night and watching it again right now.

RE your first point. They ask Rivers to drop into coverage quite a bit. I think they essentially are different animals. With Rivers out, they also bltized Dhani more than I'd ever seen. Rey was in coverage quite a bit.

Fanene played mostly at RDE, where Odom plays, and owned Colon. He is not as tall as Odom but is faster. Your comment about him being lighter may be underestimated. He really only looks slightly bigger than Rey. He could be down to 260 or so, whereas he is listed at like 290. Fanene carshes down and generally there was eiter NDukwe or Brandon Johnson on the edge.

Except for Mewelde Moore's 12 yard run in the 1st, the line had contain and control on almost every run. On that play they blitzed into line shift, and ran right past Moore. One Ben's 3rd down scramble, Ben's check down was clearly a run, in man coverage, and the O-line rotated the D-line around the pocket and Ben escapes.

In this blitz heavy scheme, Tank and Sims may not be fast enough to get it done at times. I think what they planned to harrass Ben was getting the quickest guys out there and apply pressure, and it worked.

[COB]

I can't remember the talking head who pointed it out, but they said Zimmer had his D-ends stopping once they got even with Ben. Not allowing the tackle to push them deep and past Ben limited his ability to move sideways and extend plays. Forcing him to stay in the pocket worked, and I expect the league to take note.

I can't believe Max Starks is the starting left tackle for the Steelers. He seems to play at about 70% effort. Or maybe that is just his full speed and he can't go any faster.

[COB]

Saw it last night and watching it again right now.

I don't have NFL Network, but I have the game on DVR and watched the 4th quarter last night.

The Steelers tied the game with about 11:30 left in the 4th.

So what happens after that, what happens in the last 11 and a half minutes, will decide that game.

On their two drives, the Bengals run 20 plays for 104 yards. They hold the ball 8 minutes and 11 seconds during those drives.

On their two drives, the Steelers run 7 plays for 7 yards and have the ball for 1 minute 43 seconds.

Throw in our victory formation plays, and those 11 and a half minutes that decided the game break down like this:

Bengals, 23 plays, 104 yards, 9 minutes and 47 seconds, 6 points.

Steelers, 7 plays, 7 yeards, 1 minute and 43 seconds, 0 points.

Our line dominance was just about complete. During the game broadcast Simms said he asked the Steelers what struck them about the first game. He said the Steelers were all struck by how jubilantly the Bengals celebrated, they said the Bengals acted like they'd won the Super Bowl.

This was a bit of a putdown by the Steelers, but it was revealing. The Bengals celebrated that way because they really really wanted to win.

As in, they wanted to win more than the Steelers did. They just wanted it more, and when you have that, you get physically dominating play. The Bengals just want it more, they're phsically tougher, and they bullied the Steelers all over Heinz Field.

It was so ***damn beautiful.

[agreen_112]

Saw it last night and watching it again right now.

I don't have NFL Network, but I have the game on DVR and watched the 4th quarter last night.

The Steelers tied the game with about 11:30 left in the 4th.

So what happens after that, what happens in the last 11 and a half minutes, will decide that game.

On their two drives, the Bengals run 20 plays for 104 yards. They hold the ball 8 minutes and 11 seconds during those drives.

On their two drives, the Steelers run 7 plays for 7 yards and have the ball for 1 minute 43 seconds.

Throw in our victory formation plays, and those 11 and a half minutes that decided the game break down like this:

Bengals, 23 plays, 104 yards, 9 minutes and 47 seconds, 6 points.

Steelers, 7 plays, 7 yeards, 1 minute and 43 seconds, 0 points.

Our line dominance was just about complete. During the game broadcast Simms said he asked the Steelers what struck them about the first game. He said the Steelers were all struck by how jubilantly the Bengals celebrated, they said the Bengals acted like they'd won the Super Bowl.

This was a bit of a putdown by the Steelers, but it was revealing. The Bengals celebrated that way because they really really wanted to win.

As in, they wanted to win more than the Steelers did. They just wanted it more, and when you have that, you get physically dominating play. The Bengals just want it more, they're phsically tougher, and they bullied the Steelers all over Heinz Field.

It was so ***damn beautiful.

C'mon guys he put a lot of work into this post, you should be thankful. Good work breaking down the most important part of the game!

I agree, it was f**king beautiful.

[agreen_112]

Anyone hear about the Fanene piece on 60 minutes? Details??

[Pidge]

First I've heard of it. probably a little fluff piece on Samoans in the nuffle and focusing on him and a couple of others guys going back after the tsunami a few weeks back and charity stuff.