Thank you Carson.

[Jet23]

Ok, Carson has indeed turned himself into a leader beyond what those of us already claimed he was and for that, I am happy. Why ?? Because if not for that, this team would be in trouble. Some of that would be due to the fact Carson has looked off on his throws. Don't get me wrong, I'm not d*mning Carson here and he has his shots that look vintage Carson, but he has others that leave me scratching my head and no it's not dandruff.

I think his shots downfield are lacking the accuracy that has always been the mark of Carson. Overthrows, underthrows, or floaters, but there's just something that still isn't there for him. It can be worked, but if he was on as he use to be, these close games would be blowouts. I'm serious there BLOWOUTS. The wide passes that seem to just keep going wide and I'm not talking about throwing the ball away either.

I'll take what we've gotten to this point, because it equals 3-1, 2-0 in the division, and sitting in first place. However, if he makes more of those errant throws against Baltimore next week, it will get ugly fast.

Pull it together Carson, we should be killing people out there !!!

I'm glad I was not the only one yelling at the tv for Carson to just make 'one f$cking throw in overtime'. I give him credit for pulling out the 'W', but it should not have been that close. And how about a simple curl on 3rd and 4. Why do they have to do a 10 yard timing route to the sideline that did not work 10 consecutive times? IMO Brat makes it more difficult than it needs to be.

[SupaBran]

I agree, I don't know if the old Carson, that allowed our high powered offense to score on a play-action deep ball, is ever going to come back. He still has the elite arm in terms of accuracy but his arm strength is not there and I don't know if it will ever come back. All of the deep out routes don't have the same zip allowing defenders to make a play on the ball. His deep throws down the field are indeed lollipops. The INT to Coles was a horrible decision, not really much to do about arm strength. He does still have the crazy accuracy though with those fade patterns to Chad in the endzone and the 20 yard in routes to Henry and Coles between several defenders.

All of this is a moo point if we keep winning, all will be forgotten or forgiven!

[Pidge]

I just disagree when you said his arm is still there. I have seen nothing to indicate he can throw the ball downfield at all. Every time he tries do go even somewhat long, even like 30 yards...he underthrows these rainbow lollipops that hang up in the air forever. He's making Chad Pennington look like he has a rifle for an arm. And his throws on out-patterns to the sideline look extremely weak. He's shown some good zip on some shorter passes over the middle, but that's about it.

Honestly, this offense reminds me of the jon kitna days when we have to put together 18 play drives in order to score. I remember how frustrating that was because it's very hard to sustain a drive for that long without making a mistake. Which is exactly why we are having trouble putting up points.

Great post and, thinking about it some more, you're probably correct. I have no doubt he can still launch it 50 if needed but the strength to do that with good spin and trajectory haven't been evident so far. Even on the out route which need to be zipped in to the receiver, requiring good strength, have been erm, military medium.

Now, whether that is due his elbow problems, which is very possible, or lingering doubts over his knee I don't know. Maybe it's O-line play being good enough but not great sometimes. What I have seen is that he can't always step into his throw like he used to. I'd like to see him him get a good drop back, step into the throw and see what happens. I'll reserve judgement on his arm for a little while longer.

About the offense, talk about hitting the nail on the head. That is a large part of the sloppiness for sure. The number of plays we run will lead to the odd fubar. However, this many mistakes smacks of something else too. No idea what it is but far too many mistakes being made by too many people.

[jonahdsage]

During games I worry about Carson's arm strength, accuracy, etc. After watching the game knowing the outcome, though, I just don't think that's true. That 40 yard pass to coles that was intercepted yesterday was on a rope -- the problem is throwing into coverage. If Coles has three guys on him there has to be someone else open. It seems there are times, though, that Carson decides who is going to be thrown to before the snap. I'm OK with that, just not to Coles when it's pretty up in the air if he was a worthwhile pickup (especially when Slim is making 20 yard catches in stride and wide open).

I agree whole heartedly with the previous post about making it too hard on ourselves. If it's 3rd and 4, there's just no way I'm calling a ten yard outside route that will force chad to plant his feet and fall forward 3 feet out of bounds (in double coverage) to get the first. Just too, too hard. Can't we run quick slants through the middle? Something with just a little higher completion chance than such finesse plays that require perfection? I'm not saying never run those, but yesterday I felt like we were trying to be WAY too cute with our play calling.

All those people who think we need to cut carson or he's just not there are nuts. His accuracy has been great, his arm strength doesn't worry me anymore, and the man has ice in his veins. Bring it on ravens.

[ArmyBengal]

I think it can be a bit skewed when looking at Carson's stats. While I argued his accuracy is off, his timing or decision making maybe what's throwing that off. However, I can't agree with "his accuracy has been great" comment. He's currently throwing at a 57.7% accuracy. That's good for 25th in the league. Some notable QB's throwing at a better percentage rate ??

Seneca Wallace

Jason Campbell

Trent Edwards

Kyle Orton

While I think Carson is FAR AND ABOVE those listed in regards to his QB prowess, there's no denying he's been off. Drops don't help that stat, but neither do floaters or under/over thrown balls. He's only completed 11 passes over 20 yards and only one of those went for better than 40, so something is up with that as well.

Once again, stats don't always tell the whole picture, but I'm not about to say Carson is playing at a pro bowl level either.

I'll take the game winning drives, positive leadership, and smile greatly though !!!

[Stripes]

I don't think Carson's arm strength or accuracy have been overly problematic. His timing with the receivers has been very inconsistent though, and consistently bad with Coles. We've had too many dropped passes and protection has been a little suspect (though much better than last year). Palmer's biggest problem is his lack of mobility I think. When he can stay in the pocket with his feet planted he's great, but rarely will any NFL defense allow him to do that for an entire football game. When he has to step away from pressure or roll out, it often leads to trouble. Unfortunately I don't think that will change.

I think we have bigger problems, especially when Carson has so consistently thus far flipped the switch late in games and gotten the offense rolling.

[jonahdsage]

I don't think Carson's arm strength or accuracy have been overly problematic. His timing with the receivers has been very inconsistent though, and consistently bad with Coles. We've had too many dropped passes and protection has been a little suspect (though much better than last year). Palmer's biggest problem is his lack of mobility I think. When he can stay in the pocket with his feet planted he's great, but rarely will any NFL defense allow him to do that for an entire football game. When he has to step away from pressure or roll out, it often leads to trouble. Unfortunately I don't think that will change.

I think we have bigger problems, especially when Carson has so consistently thus far flipped the switch late in games and gotten the offense rolling.

When I say his accuracy hasn't been a problem or even "overly probematic" I mean he's throwing balls into spots where a receiver SHOULD catch it -- Carson throws the ball and it goes where he wants it to. The bigger issue for me is decision making and drops. First off, carson is perhaps overly confident in his arm strength and accuracy as can be seen by how often he gives himself about a 1ft square window to get the ball into for a completion. While he does often get the ball right there, it's just hard to expect a receiver to catch that when he has to guys on his back and four arms in his face. Too many throws into tight coverage. We have too many weapons and our o-line is giving Carson too much time to not throw the ball to the open receiver every time.

And the dropsies are just beyond me. The flea flicker to Chad yesterday was heartbreaking. I know everyone has drops, but it seems like we're getting them consistently out of lavern, coats (who had a much better game yesterday, I have to admit) and cedric.

Bottom line for me is I think Carson is fine physically, I'm not worried about his arm strength or accuracy. I'm worried about what's going on in his head when he makes some of his throws and I'm more worried about what's going on with guys who have balls hit them in their hands, chest, or head and don't make the catch.

[chandon]

Ok, Carson has indeed turned himself into a leader beyond what those of us already claimed he was and for that, I am happy. Why ?? Because if not for that, this team would be in trouble. Some of that would be due to the fact Carson has looked off on his throws. Don't get me wrong, I'm not d*mning Carson here and he has his shots that look vintage Carson, but he has others that leave me scratching my head and no it's not dandruff.

I think his shots downfield are lacking the accuracy that has always been the mark of Carson. Overthrows, underthrows, or floaters, but there's just something that still isn't there for him. It can be worked, but if he was on as he use to be, these close games would be blowouts. I'm serious there BLOWOUTS. The wide passes that seem to just keep going wide and I'm not talking about throwing the ball away either.

I'll take what we've gotten to this point, because it equals 3-1, 2-0 in the division, and sitting in first place. However, if he makes more of those errant throws against Baltimore next week, it will get ugly fast.

Pull it together Carson, we should be killing people out there !!!

I'm glad I was not the only one yelling at the tv for Carson to just make 'one f$cking throw in overtime'. I give him credit for pulling out the 'W', but it should not have been that close. And how about a simple curl on 3rd and 4. Why do they have to do a 10 yard timing route to the sideline that did not work 10 consecutive times? IMO Brat makes it more difficult than it needs to be.

I agree 100%. I think if you put a positive, intellegent and inspirational OC into the Bengals organisation then you would see a different CP. I think Carson is getting very frustrated with Brat and his stupid and unimaginative play calling. I think Carson...and the offense in general..needs a new OC to make things really move. I really cannot see any rings unless we get one, as Brat will always find us ways to lose games. He should have gone a long time ago IMO, and CP will not move up to the next level of QB until there are changes.

We now have both a passing and a running game. We need a new OC who can adapt our game to best utilise the talents, and to make the most of our potential top 3 QB.

[Sea Ray]

JoeP...interesting obersvations. The out passes are not near as sharp as they used to be. And that was indeed a lollipop he heaved to what should have been a TD to Henry, Henry's effort notwithstanding. The counter wondering would be a question of timing on those out patterns and wind on the lollipop, but, yeah, given his elbow issues, an interesting observation.

What is indisputable, I think, is that he has morphed into the kind of leader we always wanted him to be. And he's been lethal with the game on the line.

That pass to Henry was a rushed, off balance pass. Not one that he should be judged by. I've seen good zip on a lot of passes. I think his arm is fine. He does need room to step into passes

[Sea Ray]

I think Carson's biggest problem is that he's staring down receivers and not looking them off. As a result the guys he throws to are invariably closely covered. Look at Big Ben...his receivers are often wide open, whereas Carson has to thread a needle. Carson's insistence on going for ten yards on 3rd and 4 is another factor.

[cincy9275]

this is what his 4th game in about a year? it takes time to return to form especially when you sit out most of the preseason. carson has shown some good things this season. we now have a leader this team has lacked for so long. then carsons drive and determination this season will go a long way. players see that, it will make them want to play even harder. i think carson will also improve as the season goes on. he has shown flashes of it but is inconsistent at times. that to me shows he still need more work. as for his arm it's still a NFL caliber arm.

[ArmyBengal]

That was the first run Carson has made in quite some time and it would appear that are more chances for those types of plays that he simply doesn't take a shot at. I would like to see him do that more often. He has been throwing well on the move outside the pocket, why not turn it upfield ??

[BengalszoneBilly]

That was the first run Carson has made in quite some time and it would appear that are more chances for those types of plays that he simply doesn't take a shot at. I would like to see him do that more often. He has been throwing well on the move outside the pocket, why not turn it upfield ??

For the Bengals to continue this winning streak, I believe our offensive leader will have to expand his game. Just dropping back into a rapidly collapsing pocket ain't gonna cut it, and I think he now recognizes this.

[Pidge]

5 for 5 this season. That's Peyton Manning/Tom Brady/Bret Fervour/Joe Montana all rolled into one being of pure awesomeness.

[semiotter]

I will say this, if that was Roeth leading the Steelers on that many 4th quarter and OT drives to give the Steelers the lead, as Carson has in three of the four games this year, the fellating that would be provided him by the national media would make us all turn away in horror.

Oh mem you are so correct!! If that was Big Bum Worthlessburger the media would be kissing his ass promoting Ben as the next "savior" of man kind. But you don't hear crap from them because its the Bengals QB. But that's ok they can all keep licking Bens boot straps because Carson don't need that crap. He just wants to win