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icehole3

Hobson and the TE should consider

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I wouldn't say the Utecht can't catch in the least. First, he got hurt early last season and wasn't a factor after that injury occured. Second, if you go back to the two years prior, playing in Indy, you will find he put up decent numbers. He had 31 receptions for 364 yards and a TD in 2007 and 37 receptions for 377 yards with no TD in 2006. What's impressive about that ?? He played behind Dallas Clark with a stacked WR corps in Indy. More impressive ?? Of the 31 receptions in 2007, 20 of those went for 1st downs. The numbers were slightly lower the year before, but still better than what you would think given the situation in Indy at the time.

There's still no reason to think we couldn't get "at least" the same type of production from him here in producing the 1st down target over the middle. I honestly think he will be a target that Carson will enjoy having after losing someone to get the 1st downs in TJ. I really hope he comes back well from the injury.

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I wouldn't say the Utecht can't catch in the least. First, he got hurt early last season and wasn't a factor after that injury occured. Second, if you go back to the two years prior, playing in Indy, you will find he put up decent numbers. He had 31 receptions for 364 yards and a TD in 2007 and 37 receptions for 377 yards with no TD in 2006. What's impressive about that ?? He played behind Dallas Clark with a stacked WR corps in Indy. More impressive ?? Of the 31 receptions in 2007, 20 of those went for 1st downs. The numbers were slightly lower the year before, but still better than what you would think given the situation in Indy at the time.

There's still no reason to think we couldn't get "at least" the same type of production from him here in producing the 1st down target over the middle. I honestly think he will be a target that Carson will enjoy having after losing someone to get the 1st downs in TJ. I really hope he comes back well from the injury.

I agree army, but I am still not convinced that the OC knows what/when/how or who the TE is or would/could be used. Brat's stale offense is part of the problem.

This will be my third year hating on Brat and my fourth hating on ochostinko. I was an ocho hater before it was cool. :rolleyes:

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Well, Brat is another story and while I may think his playcalling seems a bit predictable, they sound like they are trying to change things up and will give it some time this season before bashing anymore... The (hopefully) improved o-line, (hopefully) improved running game, and a (hopefully) 100% Carson should go a long way to making things a bit easier.

Utecht, getting back on topic, isn't really a concern of mine in any fashion at this point and I'm looking forward to seeing our TE's this season.

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I agree army, but I am still not convinced that the OC knows what/when/how or who the TE is or would/could be used. Brat's stale offense is part of the problem.

What you shold say is that you are not convinced that Carson Palmer knows what/when/how or who the TE is. He's the guy that decides where to throw the ball, and he has never shown that he can utilize the TE.

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I was an ocho hater before it was cool. :rolleyes:

It still isn't cool moron.

Don't worry, RM....being called a moron by the likes of JoeWrong is considered a high compliment around here

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I was an ocho hater before it was cool. :rolleyes:

It still isn't cool moron.

Don't worry, RM....being called a moron by the likes of JoeWrong is considered a high compliment around here

Yeah, you haven't lived until you've sparred with HOF, Bearcat and Ochopongo.

Hair is entertaining and challenging. Bearcat is persistant. Ochopongo is just an annoyance.

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I was an ocho hater before it was cool. :rolleyes:

It still isn't cool moron.

Perhaps. Perhaps not. But it's the right thing to do.

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I agree army, but I am still not convinced that the OC knows what/when/how or who the TE is or would/could be used. Brat's stale offense is part of the problem.

I'd say their trying to find out because we only have passreceiving tight ends on the team besides Reggie Kelly...

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I am busting a gut right now. :lol:

Joepong must have issues. Maybe I should have used 'popular' instead of 'cool'. whatever.

Anyway, I simply think that brat doesn't employ a tight end into his offense effectively. We could go round about personnel, not having a pass catching tight end, utecht and palmer being hurt etc.

I will say this: the tight end is normally a very productive part of any offense worth its salt. They are big targets that are normally durable.

Joe pong

go find the bong

so you might

lighten up.

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Here's a little fact. Reggie Kelly averaged 16.8 receptions per year through his first 5 seasons with the Bengals, most of which Carson Palmer was the starting QB. Last year, with Fitzpatrick starting most of the time, Reggie Kelly almost doubled his average, with 31 receptions.

So people like to bash bratkowski for not utilizing the TE, but somehow Carson continues to get a free pass. Why not bash Carson for never throwing to the TE? Brat is not the one who decides where to throw the ball to. That's the decision of the QB.

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Here's a little fact. Reggie Kelly averaged 16.8 receptions per year through his first 5 seasons with the Bengals, most of which Carson Palmer was the starting QB. Last year, with Fitzpatrick starting most of the time, Reggie Kelly almost doubled his average, with 31 receptions.

So people like to bash bratkowski for not utilizing the TE, but somehow Carson continues to get a free pass. Why not bash Carson for never throwing to the TE? Brat is not the one who decides where to throw the ball to. That's the decision of the QB.

as much as it pains me, pong has a legit point here, now I must take a shower

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i daresay that's only because fitzpatrick can't actually throw the ball farther than 10 yards... so all those underneath TE routes are much easier to reach/complete than the deep WR routes (primarily run by ocho cinco... goes to show why his numbers dropped).

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So people like to bash bratkowski for not utilizing the TE, but somehow Carson continues to get a free pass. Why not bash Carson for never throwing to the TE?

Because the difference in the QB's maybe? That Carson didn't have to dump it off to Kelly as much as noodle arm fitz?

Give Carson real TE's to throw too like Utecht & coffman on a normal baisis and i'm sure it will go up.

Schobel avg'd more then kelly did in his 3 years with carson being the 3rd Tight End on the team...Carson Simply hasn't had Tight Ends to throw to till recently....

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So people like to bash bratkowski for not utilizing the TE, but somehow Carson continues to get a free pass. Why not bash Carson for never throwing to the TE?

Because the difference in the QB's maybe? That Carson didn't have to dump it off to Kelly as much as noodle arm fitz?

Give Carson real TE's to throw too like Utecht & coffman on a normal baisis and i'm sure it will go up.

Schobel avg'd more then kelly did in his 3 years with carson being the 3rd Tight End on the team...Carson Simply hasn't had Tight Ends to throw to till recently....

That's exactly my point. We didn't throw much to the TEs because we didn't have any good receiving TEs. Which is why it's stupid to blame Bob Bratkowski for not utilizing the TE enough or claiming he doesn't know how to use TEs.

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Here's a little fact. Reggie Kelly averaged 16.8 receptions per year through his first 5 seasons with the Bengals, most of which Carson Palmer was the starting QB. Last year, with Fitzpatrick starting most of the time, Reggie Kelly almost doubled his average, with 31 receptions.

And of those 31 receptions only ONE of those was for more than 20 yards and only 5 resulted in a first down. So even if you did say all 5 resulting in first downs were for 10 yards each (which I doubt) Fitzpatrick only completed 6 receptions to Kelly of greater than 10 yards out of the 31. That's actually pretty sad and DEFINITELY goes to the quality of QB. Carson can thrown the deep route and that is why he will get a pass on the whole TE issue.

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Here's a little fact. Reggie Kelly averaged 16.8 receptions per year through his first 5 seasons with the Bengals, most of which Carson Palmer was the starting QB. Last year, with Fitzpatrick starting most of the time, Reggie Kelly almost doubled his average, with 31 receptions.

So people like to bash bratkowski for not utilizing the TE, but somehow Carson continues to get a free pass. Why not bash Carson for never throwing to the TE? Brat is not the one who decides where to throw the ball to. That's the decision of the QB.

Owned... I'm sorry guys, I'm not giving him props because Joe and I are buddies... I'm just saying, the guy speaks the truth. This is something to think about. I've never looked at the problem of utilizing our TE in this way. Hopefully Carson is aware of this, I'm sure he is.

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Here's a little fact. Reggie Kelly averaged 16.8 receptions per year through his first 5 seasons with the Bengals, most of which Carson Palmer was the starting QB. Last year, with Fitzpatrick starting most of the time, Reggie Kelly almost doubled his average, with 31 receptions.

So people like to bash bratkowski for not utilizing the TE, but somehow Carson continues to get a free pass. Why not bash Carson for never throwing to the TE? Brat is not the one who decides where to throw the ball to. That's the decision of the QB.

as much as it pains me, pong has a legit point here, now I must take a shower

Ochopongo does have a legit point. I can't say I buy into it completely, but it is nice to see a well reasoned and supported point from him. I've actually seen several plays over the past few seasons in the red zone where Carson tried to thread a needle to a well-covered Fredo in the corner of the endzone (no doubt to appease Fredo's sorry tail) when a TE was standing there like he was waiting on a bus.

And to allow Ochopongo to fall on his own sword here, I do consider that as much Fredo's fault as CP's. :P

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It's a legit point only to go so far as saying he completed more passed to a TE than Carson, nothing else. To that I say, it has more to do with Fitzpatrick's sh*tty skill set versus Carson's. The stats I gave in regards to Kelly's receptions back that thought process up.

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It's a familiar argument that dates back to the days of Blake and Boomer. Then it was argued Blake didn't utilize his TE's as much and one of the reasons for Boomer's success was his willingness to throw to his TE's more often. In fact, the opposite was true. Overall Blake threw to his TE's with far more frequency than Boomer, but that perception was skewed amongst fans because Boomer threw to his TE's twice as often when in the Red Zone.

Fast forward to today where we find Palmer admitting he doesn't use his checkdown options nearly as much as the offense calls for due to his preference for the long ball. So who amongst is suprised to learn when Palmer exits stage left due to injury, and is replaced by a noodle armed backup, the receiving stats remain good, and in some cases improved, for checkdown options like Kelly and Housh?

The real question faced today is how does Palmer go forward with this group of TE's on the roster now that his primary checkdown option has signed with Seattle? This TE group is now deeper than any in recent memory and features more than one player capable of being more than a designated blocker. So by all rights Palmer SHOULD begin using his TE's more if for no other reason than the fact their talent level has improved enough to finally deserve some attention.

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I am busting a gut right now. :lol:

Joepong must have issues. Maybe I should have used 'popular' instead of 'cool'. whatever.

Anyway, I simply think that brat doesn't employ a tight end into his offense effectively. We could go round about personnel, not having a pass catching tight end, utecht and palmer being hurt etc.

I will say this: the tight end is normally a very productive part of any offense worth its salt. They are big targets that are normally durable.

Joe pong

go find the bong

so you might

lighten up.

Nice pome Matt ..... easy to see why you teach math and not English lit. :cheers:

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I am busting a gut right now. :lol:

Joepong must have issues. Maybe I should have used 'popular' instead of 'cool'. whatever.

Anyway, I simply think that brat doesn't employ a tight end into his offense effectively. We could go round about personnel, not having a pass catching tight end, utecht and palmer being hurt etc.

I will say this: the tight end is normally a very productive part of any offense worth its salt. They are big targets that are normally durable.

Joe pong

go find the bong

so you might

lighten up.

Nice pome Matt ..... easy to see why you teach math and not English lit. :cheers:

thanks redsfan....I think? :blush:

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I am busting a gut right now. :lol:

Joepong must have issues. Maybe I should have used 'popular' instead of 'cool'. whatever.

Anyway, I simply think that brat doesn't employ a tight end into his offense effectively. We could go round about personnel, not having a pass catching tight end, utecht and palmer being hurt etc.

I will say this: the tight end is normally a very productive part of any offense worth its salt. They are big targets that are normally durable.

Joe pong

go find the bong

so you might

lighten up.

Nice pome Matt ..... easy to see why you teach math and not English lit. :cheers:

thanks redsfan....I think? :blush:

Sorry Matt ... just kidding. I was flashing back to the haikus that we were doing during the Dillon soap opera ..... ended up w/ all of us doing limericks instead ..still funny tho. :cheers:

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