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TJJackson

Bengals defense ranked 12th YPG and YPP

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You can check it out for yourselves at nfl.com

http://www.nfl.com/stats/team

If we had any semblance of a pass rush, this team could easily have been a legit top ten defense. Wow.

If we had any semblance of an offense as well, these stats would have been better (offense would have held the ball longer overall, resulting in less time for opposing offenses and a more rested defense when they were on the field)

Ah well.

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You can check it out for yourselves at nfl.com

http://www.nfl.com/stats/team

If we had any semblance of a pass rush, this team could easily have been a legit top ten defense. Wow.

If we had any semblance of an offense as well, these stats would have been better (offense would have held the ball longer overall, resulting in less time for opposing offenses and a more rested defense when they were on the field)

Ah well.

Yes Virginia, There Truly is a Santa Claus..... We have got to get some pass rush!!! Maybe a Healthy Odom and Geathers can do the job, either way, we've got to bring in somebody like a George Selvie or Matt Shaugnessy on Third down, to be a pass rush specialist!

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I think what's amazing, in some twisted Bengals fan type of way, is that the passing defense was ranked 15th in the league with the league's second-worst pass rush. That means we're doing a good job covering while opposing quarterbacks can sit in the pocket. If we get that pass rush.... hummm... could this defense next season be in the top five? Top ten?

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I remember threads like this from back in '01 when the Bengals had a crap offense and a top 10 D. The question then was, is the D really improved, or was the better ranking more a function of an inept offense that couldn't score, meaning that opponents didn't really have to do a whole heck of a lot to win? I thought it was the former, and was quickly proven wrong in '02.

The defense is definitely improved, but I keep thinking back to games the ones against Dallas and the Giants this year, when we did manage to put up some points...and they just put up more. The line is average, the pass rush nonexistent, the LB corps pedestrian (with the possible exception of Rivers) and the secondary annoyingly injury prone.

I don't think they have much choice other than to address the offensive line in the first but its still going to p*ss me off to have to pass on a stud defender.

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The defense is definitely improved, but I keep thinking back to games the ones against Dallas and the Giants this year, when we did manage to put up some points...and they just put up more.

I certainly see your point, but those games were fairly early on in the season. I think we may have fared better later on...

Of course, you could point to our late season blowouts as a counterpoint, but it's hard to deny that we saw some general progress. At least enough to not completely write the defense off next seasons as we did for this one.

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The defense is definitely improved, but I keep thinking back to games the ones against Dallas and the Giants this year, when we did manage to put up some points...and they just put up more.

I certainly see your point, but those games were fairly early on in the season. I think we may have fared better later on...

Of course, you could point to our late season blowouts as a counterpoint, but it's hard to deny that we saw some general progress. At least enough to not completely write the defense off next seasons as we did for this one.

Even so, when the Bengals offense goes three-and-out eight times (like they did against the Ravens), I think we can hardly blame the defense totally. In truth, IMHO, what blow outs like that did was just show that our depth is really limited, because the guys that are coming in to give our starters breathers are very limited in terms of talent.

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I wonder how high the D was ranked when the record was 0-8?

The team went 4-3-1 afterwards against some pretty bad teams. That defense still didn't

get many sackes

stuff the good running teams

get many interceptions

So lots of improvement needed. With Zimmer calling the shots, if he is still around, I have confidence that the defense can get awhole lot better. Especially at linebacker and secondary.

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With Zimmer calling the shots, if he is still around, I have confidence that the defense can get awhole lot better. Especially at linebacker and secondary.

Why in the world wouldn't Zimmer still be around? I know it's "black Monday" and all, but pretty much the only thing I'm certain of is that Lewis and Zimmer will be on the sidelines next season.

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With Zimmer calling the shots, if he is still around, I have confidence that the defense can get awhole lot better. Especially at linebacker and secondary.

Why in the world wouldn't Zimmer still be around? I know it's "black Monday" and all, but pretty much the only thing I'm certain of is that Lewis and Zimmer will be on the sidelines next season.

Maybe some team will offer him the HC job. He certainly has earned that consideration.

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The defense is definitely improved, but I keep thinking back to games the ones against Dallas and the Giants this year, when we did manage to put up some points...and they just put up more.

I certainly see your point, but those games were fairly early on in the season. I think we may have fared better later on...

Of course, you could point to our late season blowouts as a counterpoint, but it's hard to deny that we saw some general progress. At least enough to not completely write the defense off next seasons as we did for this one.

To be clear, I don't mean to write off the D, I think it has gotten better. But top 12? Ehhhh...I'm not quite ready to go there yet. I look at things like our lack of picks this season. That suggests to me that opposing offenses weren't pressing, that they never felt much pressure to take risks. And why bother? With the O setting records for 3-and-outs and punts, you're likely to get the ball back in a couple minutes anyhow. And to End's point, I believe the D was ranked around 24th at midseason, so an easier sked in the second half looks to have played a role as well.

This is what makes the state of the o-line so aggravating to me: get a stud DE or LB -- or preferably both -- and I think this really could be a top-12 D. But OT is such a wreck that it's hard to go any other direction in the first.

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If we had any semblance of an offense as well, these stats would have been better (offense would have held the ball longer overall, resulting in less time for opposing offenses and a more rested defense when they were on the field)

I don't buy it. If this team had an offense similar to the '05 team, teams wouldn't have had large leads late in games, meaning that teams wouldn't have been just running out the clock in the 4th quarter.

Yes, the defense would have been fresher had the Bengals had an offense... but opposing teams would have also needed to continue moving the ball down field. And given that the defense gave up nearly 23 points/game as it was, that stat could have been much worse.

Is the defense improved? The run defense certainly was. I was impressed late in the season with their ability to stop the run... but they still didn't do a great job of keeping teams from scoring, which is really the whole point.

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With Zimmer calling the shots, if he is still around, I have confidence that the defense can get awhole lot better. Especially at linebacker and secondary.

Why in the world wouldn't Zimmer still be around? I know it's "black Monday" and all, but pretty much the only thing I'm certain of is that Lewis and Zimmer will be on the sidelines next season.

Maybe some team will offer him the HC job. He certainly has earned that consideration.

I hadn't thought of that, but I think it's a longshot that any team is looking to loot the Bengals for anything other than TJ.

I do think that the defense is better than any recent year, including 2005 which was the result of an anomaly of turnovers and unexpected production from Odell Thurman rather than any solid defensive philosophy IMO. Odom was a mild disappointment to me, but I don't know how much of that can be attributed to injury. Geathers....same. The production from guys like Peko (who was already here, but not playing at this level) and Crocker (who had to give up his job at 7-11) leads me to believe that Zimmer has the ability to keep moving this defense in the right direction. I'm not expecting miracles and am not holding my breath for a top 10 defense next season, but I see consistent improvement for the first time in several years. Sure, I could go all Shula and say so what, happens every year and then they still suck, etc. which could be true, but so far I like Zimmer far better than Bresh and somewhat better than Frazier, so that's something. Now go get a DE or LB who can put Ben Roethlisberger on a stretcher and I may start to dream of a real defense.

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I wonder how high the D was ranked when the record was 0-8?

The team went 4-3-1 afterwards against some pretty bad teams. That defense still didn't

get many sackes

stuff the good running teams

get many interceptions

So lots of improvement needed. With Zimmer calling the shots, if he is still around, I have confidence that the defense can get awhole lot better. Especially at linebacker and secondary.

The defense was ranked 22nd overall, eighth against the pass, 31st sacking the quarterback and 27th in scoring defense. I charted these things before every game. If you want, there's more (click here, click here, click here)

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I call BS on the reasoning our Defense is just product of our offense was so bad,Look at the Browns getting blown out by Steeler scrubs or The Lions who were blown out by the packers...Bad defenses will still give up alot of points I just hope we can find some passrush somewhere in this years rush because to me thats onlything we were truly lacking ....

PS,Well a Ray Lewis MLB wouldn't hurt overall I'm happy with dhani's play and think he'll continue to be serviceable till we can find a young MLB of the future.

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Please forward this topic to Billy on a daily basis to make up for the last three years plus!!

Message received. ;)

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I call BS on the reasoning our Defense is just product of our offense was so bad,Look at the Browns getting blown out by Steeler scrubs or The Lions who were blown out by the packers...Bad defenses will still give up alot of points I just hope we can find some passrush somewhere in this years rush because to me thats onlything we were truly lacking ....

PS,Well a Ray Lewis MLB wouldn't hurt overall I'm happy with dhani's play and think he'll continue to be serviceable till we can find a young MLB of the future.

Yep... but the Bengals gave up 23 points/game and were blown out 6 times - so, yeah. They weren't all that great. They just gave up fewer yards than in a couple years past, when the offense was good. hmmm.

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You can check it out for yourselves at nfl.com

http://www.nfl.com/stats/team

If we had any semblance of a pass rush, this team could easily have been a legit top ten defense. Wow.

If we had any semblance of an offense as well, these stats would have been better (offense would have held the ball longer overall, resulting in less time for opposing offenses and a more rested defense when they were on the field)

Ah well.

I'm all for looking at the positive, but c'mon, we've played some pretty crappy offenses, especially the last few weeks...hence the big jump..

and as for the "holding the ball longer" I'm not so sure, as without a passing game, we have been running the ball an awful lot the last few games, thereby using up a lot of clock.

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It surely helps to finish out the season against the pathetic offenses of Washington, Cleveland and KC.

As mentioned above they have to upgrade their o-line if they actually want to win games, but it would be ideal if they could add some more to their front 7 on Def, it's sorely needed.

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interestingly, http://blogs.nfl.com/2008/12/29/let-the-draft-debate-begin/ thinks we should go D this year...

It's not out of the question. I'd love to upgrade the strong side with Aaron Curry or get our own Rey-Rey in the middle. And with the D improving, now's the time to pour on the talent and really make it something special (hopefully).

Yes, the o-line is a mess. But I'm not dead set against delaying until round two. The Bengals have had some good results picking o-line in the second (Whitworth, Steinbach).

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Let's not forget that the 12 ranking is based on the entire year, so sure - we played some weaker teams at the end of the year, but we played some of the better ones as well, and OVERALL we ended 12th. Given our longstanding tradition of piss-poor defense, i don;t think a ranking of 12th is anything to sneeze at. Heck, it's worth partying over!

On the draft matter - yes, I'd also like it to be a OT, preferably a OLT. That said, if there is a pass rushing phenom DE who is higher rated than the OTs remaining on the board when we pick, I would not be unhappy with that pick. Less happy, yeah, but not unhappy. I would not be happy with a LB or DB

As always, my number one preference would be to trade down and pick up another r2 or r3 pick in the process, as we have more need than we can fill with our picks at the moment.

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Since seeing the way the O-line got our QB's killed the 1st half of season and no push in the running game, I was all for getting a stud OL man, but now after seeing the way the D has turned it aroung lately, i wouldn't mind a an ACurry or a pass rushing DE if available...Like TJJ said the ranking is not based on the last 3 games that was for the year, and a #12 ranking is nothing to sneeze at with no pass rush, so while I know we need O-line help, I wouldn't be mad either if addressed in round 2 or later...

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Also, regarding the poor teams we played down the stretch...aren't those the very same teams that we typically make look like Super Bowl contenders? I'm happy that we did exactly what we were supposed to against poor offenses. It's nice for a change. That said, KC doesn't exactly have a terrible offense...

As for the draft, I'm not overly picky in the first round as long as we feel they're going to make an impact right away. OT, DT, LB, DE.

Wells would make me unhappy, and I'm not crazy about taking a receiver that high. Our DBs seem pretty set for the time being.

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