Mike Brown Speaks

[HoosierCat]

Good job, kaz!

And a good answer from Hobs. Let's hope he is, indeed, not "misreading this thing completely."

[membengal]

In the midst of my latest Bengals depression, let's see if I can sum up where we are at:

1. No change at HC

2. CJ coming back.

3. No re-structuring of GM hole, so more of the same with Mike Brown at the helm of personnel and scouting.

With that in mind, what is realistic in terms of anything approaching "change" for this team in 2009?

My guesses:

1. Brat gone, Paul Alexander gone. That might be just enough to placate a few of the masses, and give us the much needed crazy-hope that it will somehow be different in 2009.

2. Line will be addressed in Round 1, only because they can no longer ignore it.

3. Carson Palmer's return to "health". This will be trumpeted at some point in the off-season, but it is already hard to believe it when he spent the last two months ducking the surgery he should have already had. Puts the entire program in jeapordy.

4. Free agent signings to make a difference? Not f**king likely. Although, in their defense, they made an actual effort last off-season. No idea if that will continue this upcoming off-season, as Brown may decide that it wasn't worth it given how the season has tanked.

Anything else likely? Anything in there to get anyone remotely excited or hopeful for the 2009 season? Any reason to think ML will get his fire back, what with CJ and Henry still on the team and still ever-present reminders of how he does not have ultimate authority with his players?

Even with health, it is hard to look at 2009 and seen anything other than a six to eight win team if everything breaks right. Which suits Brown just fine, I guess.

Whole thing is beyond sad.

[Pidge]

Not to get oo into it and especially the socialism aspect but a closed league with revenue sharing means this can and will happen and will never change unless Mikey or whoever decide they'd like to win. As it is, they are good to go. Just exist and make a profit, no need to strive for excellence on the field.

The system works well but there's always a danger that a man completely devoid of a sense of shame ends up owning a franchise and voilà - the current Bengals are born.

Well I think some of the pro's put it best Mike Brown Does want to win he's just too Loyal,Cheap and stupid to do what it takes.

Yeah, in other words - he's not actually that fussed about winning. Who wouldn't like nice things to happen to them completely unexpectedly? Zero commitment to winning. You can only be so stupid/cheap/loyal to have one winning season in I forget how long and still persevere with the same old same old if you actually wanted to win. Nah, he's not stupid, he's making money. And really, I can't blame him. No need to try and win as things stand.

Maybe if the fans genuinely voted with their bums and he had two or three seasons with virtually empty stands, things might change. Then again, surely that would have happened by now if it was going to.

Ah f**k it. I love football and having a team to root for makes it all the better, even with the multitude of faults.

[HoosierCat]

Yeah, in other words - he's not actually that fussed about winning.

I dunno. I actually think Mike Brown cares about winning and losing.

He just doesn't believe that there's much of a connection between the front office and the W/L column.

I think he thinks that success in the NFL is essentially random. If you pointed him toward New England and Scott Pioli, he's point you toward Cleveland and Phil Savage in return. Six months back Savage was the toast of general manager-dom. Now he may be toast. Why? All the experts said he was doing all the right things...and plop went the turd.

To an extent, I think he's right. A lot happens between the GM and the W/L column. It's like asking if your TV ad campaign resulted in higher sales of your product. Maybe, but there's a lot that goes on in between your commercial and the time someone picks your widget off a store shelf, and unless you actually ask them, you can only guess at why they did so. Was it the ad? The package? The price? Etc.

That said, most organizations take some stabs at accountability. Just for the sake of shaking up those random possibilities if nothing else.

[Jet23]

F^*k Mike Brown! When you ask SOP if he is successful, he looks at his portfolio and check book, not his winning percentage and playoff appearances. I literally can not listen to him speak or read what he has spoken. Stop paying to watch his garbage and he will have to change, or leave. At this point, I could care less which.

Mike Brown is the best thing for Bob Castellini. Cincinnati wants to be a football town, but will remain a baseball town by default. F@*k Mike Brown!

[Bearcat1975]

I actually responded to Mike Brown's comments, albeit indirectly, this morning while on the toilet.

I'd like to thank 2 Taco Bell Bean Burritos, and a 6 pack of the Beast for contributing. Without their assistance, I could not have delivered my sentiment toward Mike Brown's comments as accurately.

My only regret is that the Mike Brown article makes poor toilet paper. Much like the cheapass toilet paper at PBS.

[Pidge]

Yeah, in other words - he's not actually that fussed about winning.

I dunno. I actually think Mike Brown cares about winning and losing.

He just doesn't believe that there's much of a connection between the front office and the W/L column.

I think he thinks that success in the NFL is essentially random. If you pointed him toward New England and Scott Pioli, he's point you toward Cleveland and Phil Savage in return. Six months back Savage was the toast of general manager-dom. Now he may be toast. Why? All the experts said he was doing all the right things...and plop went the turd.

To an extent, I think he's right. A lot happens between the GM and the W/L column. It's like asking if your TV ad campaign resulted in higher sales of your product. Maybe, but there's a lot that goes on in between your commercial and the time someone picks your widget off a store shelf, and unless you actually ask them, you can only guess at why they did so. Was it the ad? The package? The price? Etc.

That said, most organizations take some stabs at accountability. Just for the sake of shaking up those random possibilities if nothing else.

I agree with you to an extent on everything. I guess I just have a hard time accepting he could be that much of an idiot. Sure, just by having a GM and a bugillion scouts doesn't mean you'll have success. Of course not. But.....how many teams have won the SB without having at least a basis of a solid GM/FO set up though? No team lucks its way to the big prize.

Getting the right people in at every level is the hard part of course and the reason why so many struggle to have an effective GM/FO that translates into success. However, having the right people running things can mean you remain successful over a long period of time, something few, if any, thought would be possible in the FA era.

Ach I dunno, being a cheap douchebag, a suffocatingly loyal parent or just being a plain old retard - the end result will remain the same. No success for the Bengals. Unless the starts align just right for one brief year.

[preyer]

in particular i love the idea that being a superbowl champion means less money because then you have to *gasp* pay more money to stay competitive. right there in black and white he all but admits that this level of play isn't something he truly lusts for. oh, i'm sure he cares about winning... just enough to keep fans coming back and shelling out for draft beer and jerseys made in some third-world hsit hole.

it's every businessman's dream to have the 'problem' of having to spend money due to singular success in an effort to maintain said success. it's unsane not to think of it otherwise. well, it's rather crazy to float the bill for businesses who don't even attempt to achieve more than their guaranteed profit, too.

i never believe a millionaire who tells me how broke his business is. all that tells me is you know how to bilk, hide and shuffle. without profit sharing, the bengals would likely fail simply due to mismanagement and professional negligence in that 31 other examples exist of what to do and what not to do and it appears none of those lessons are being applied.

what's bizarre to me is that he runs the joint as if he's a lazy CEO with a golden parachute instead of the owner. i guess part of that is the fans' fault for instilling the idea in him that you can have a losing record (like his father) and still wind up with the tag of genius. not saying PB wasn't a genius, but you can see the mixed signals, no?

[preyer]

in particular i love the idea that being a superbowl champion means less money because then you have to *gasp* pay more money to stay competitive. right there in black and white he all but admits that this level of play isn't something he truly lusts for. oh, i'm sure he cares about winning... just enough to keep fans coming back and shelling out for draft beer and jerseys made in some third-world hsit hole.

it's every businessman's dream to have the 'problem' of having to spend money due to singular success in an effort to maintain said success. it's unsane not to think of it otherwise. well, it's rather crazy to float the bill for businesses who don't even attempt to achieve more than their guaranteed profit, too.

i never believe a millionaire who tells me how broke his business is. all that tells me is you know how to bilk, hide and shuffle. without profit sharing, the bengals would likely fail simply due to mismanagement and professional negligence in that 31 other examples exist of what to do and what not to do and it appears none of those lessons are being applied.

what's bizarre to me is that he runs the joint as if he's a lazy CEO with a golden parachute instead of the owner. i guess part of that is the fans' fault for instilling the idea in him that you can have a losing record (like his father) and still wind up with the tag of genius. not saying PB wasn't a genius, but you can see the mixed signals, no?

[COB]

in particular i love the idea that being a superbowl champion means less money because then you have to *gasp* pay more money to stay competitive.

Mike Brown never said that. It appeared in documents filed by attorneys for the Brown family who were fighting the IRS.

After Paul Brown's brilliant plan to allow his kids to buy the team from the majority shareholders was implemented, the IRS challenged the sale as a thinly veiled attempt to dodge estate taxes. Which it was. The Brown's prevailed in that fight.

I am sure the Brown's attorneys fought two battles. First, trying to prove the sale was legitimate. Obstacle: The team was purchased by Mike and others for about a quarter of its value. Winning argument: Consideration had been paid in the form of tremendous dividend payouts to the majority shareholders over the previous twelve years or so. Second, since Brown family attorneys were likely very skeptical the first battle would be won, they also fought the value battle. If the first battle was lost, the Browns would have to retroactively pay the taxes on the asset they would have inherited but for the sham sale/repurchase. The IRS had one figure in mind, Brown's attorneys had another much lower figure.

The IRS no doubt claimed that going to two super bowls made the franchise more valuable. Brown's attorneys argued going to super bowls is a losing proposition. A preposterous argument. The merchandising bonanza alone, none of which you share with the other teams, will easily cover the travel expenses, etc., probably several times over.

It is just my opinion, but Mike Brown probably never believed the statement that going to Super Bowls is somehow bad business for an NFL owner. He would probably love to go to a Super Bowl. In a related development, my four-year-old son would love to find full time employment in his adult life as the Incredible Hulk.

[BengalszoneBilly]

i guess part of that is the fans' fault for instilling the idea in him that you can have a losing record (like his father) and still wind up with the tag of genius. not saying PB wasn't a genius, but you can see the mixed signals, no?

Hold on preyer. Let's get this straight. Paul Brown earned his badge of honor (he won won four AAFC titles and then three NFL championships, not to mention an NCAA Championship) long before he arrived in Cincinnati where he then incurred a losing record with an expansion team. What he did in his coaching with the Browns back in the early days of the NFL is only rivaled by the likes of George Halas and Vince Lombardi. Paul participated first hand in every aspect of the team during this era, and he acquitted himself very well.

As we all know...Mike Brown has no such resume'. He's a lawyer and a business owner who frankly has NO business running an NFL franchise. If he's mixing these signals as you said, it's worse than mixing alcohol and prescription medications. I feel if we fans continue to attend games or buy team gear and season tickets, we are only enabling his mental disease.

[Pidge]

Paul Brown = legend. Fans of all teams agree. Revolutionary bastard and it's a crying shame what his son is doing to the Franchise he started. He could at least give enough of a s**t to try and beat the Browns. At least try that much Mikey.

[Bearcat1975]

http://www.enquirer.com/editions/2001/03/0...mnist_mike.html

This one is funny.

http://bengals.enquirer.com/2002/12/22/wwwben1a22.html

Other Bengals know it too.

http://bengals.enquirer.com/2000/08/19/ben...ase_pretty.html

Here is the sweet deal we gave him.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/s/2001/0326/1162161.html

The more things change...

Well anyway, I posted all of these because I was looking for that Enquirer article where Mike Brown absolutely DID say it costs the team more to go to the playoffs and the Super Bowl than it does to just be "competitive." Someone else on another Bengal Board dug it up a few months ago. Anyone else know the article I mean?

[walzav29]

Well we know that words during the season mean nothing. I believe that Les Frazier, Chuck B, Willie, Warrick, and a long list of others that I'm forgetting were all mentioned as not going anywhere when the season was still going on. There is NOTHING that's going to come out of Cincy until after the season. My advice is to bet heavily against the Bengals until the end of the season.

[GregCook]

Well we know that words during the season mean nothing. I believe that Les Frazier, Chuck B, Willie, Warrick, and a long list of others that I'm forgetting were all mentioned as not going anywhere when the season was still going on. There is NOTHING that's going to come out of Cincy until after the season. My advice is to bet heavily against the Bengals until the end of the season.

Right. A team this wrecked isn't going to win another game this year so why change the coaches while the disaster is unfolding? However I still believe Marvin and most of the coaching staff will be gone next year by the draft. A 1-14-1 record does that. Even to a loon like Mike Brown.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Hey I made it on Hobsons CHoice

Hobson's Choice: Beyond Palmer

December 2, 2008

It is obviously both scheme and personnel and it's obvious that losing Palmer is the biggest factor in the current malaise. But you're also right. It's just as obvious if they don't fix it, we'll be talking about another Carson Palmer body part (take your pick) a year from now instead of a playoff run.

Then why, Baghdad Hob, did Brown say that about Palmer if he knows it's a lot more than just a problem with the QB? Why??? Nice house man spin there.

[walzav29]

Here's another example of why nothing will change. Check this out from 1999

http://bengals.enquirer.com/1999/01/29/ben...gals_still.html

We're all complaining about Mike Brown and all he's done since then is nothing. Except went 11-5, which will make him stay the course.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Here's another example of why nothing will change. Check this out from 1999

http://bengals.enquirer.com/1999/01/29/ben...gals_still.html

We're all complaining about Mike Brown and all he's done since then is nothing. Except went 11-5, which will make him stay the course.

It reminds me of the team(s) just after the Super Bowl year. Brown took over the team after Paul's death, and quickly dismantled it, and did a poor job of replacing lineman and defenders when they got old and left or retired (Fulcher, Boomer, Brooks, Montoya et al...,).

Instead he added more RB's, WR's and QB's (Klingler, Pickens, Harold Green) while the o-line deteriorated, as well as the defense.

Pickens' career has mirrored Chad's pretty closely.

Mike Brown simply needs to exit out of the equation if there will ever be any hope of this franchise being respectable again.

[BengalszoneBilly]

It reminds me of the team(s) just after the Super Bowl year. Brown took over the team after Paul's death, and quickly dismantled it, and did a poor job of replacing lineman and defenders when they got old and left or retired (Fulcher, Boomer, Brooks, Montoya et al...,).

Instead he added more RB's, WR's and QB's (Klingler, Pickens, Harold Green) while the o-line deteriorated, as well as the defense.

Pickens' career has mirrored Chad's pretty closely.

Get ready for history to repeat itself in the 2009 draft. The offensive and defensive line will be addressed sparingly if at all. Mike will not be able to resist drafting high profile RB's and WR's early and often who will be rendered totally ineffective due to an inferior offensive line to play behind.

20 years later, and it's the same as it ever was...

...yeah I know I've posted this before, but it still rings true.

[HAPPYJAQ]

I am an optimist (official disclaimer)

That said, Mike Brown understands that '09 IS IT for many Bengals fans. Many hard-core fans are giving the Bengals a pass with the Palmer injury and a new DC, who has done an excellent job ALL THINGS CONSIDERED. The schedule has also included many playoff bound teams and other contending teams. If week 13, nearly every team the Bengals have played is still in the hunt, with many firmly-entrenched playoff teams in the mix.

I think that Mike believes that a healthy Palmer, improved defense and easier schedule will be enough for a quick turnaround, therefore he is staying the course on his views on hiring a GM, etc.