If Chris Johnson is available in the 2nd take him

[Wraith]

Question Hair.

Rudi is an injury risk, Perry may never be able to play again, Irons has a degenerative problem. Are you comfortable going into another season with Watson and Dorsey? Clearly the Bengals are not otherwise they would not have burned high picks on Irons and Perry. McFadden, Mendenhall, Stewart, Charles, Johnson, Rice, Forte, and Choice all have grades going into the draft that indicate that they will be gone by the time we get our compensatory selection in the 3rd Rd. The backs left over are Steve Slaton, Mike Hart, Kevin Smith, and Allen Patrick. Slaton played second fiddle to Pat White, Hart was pounded into the ground at Michigan, Kevin Smith played at UCF, and Allen Patrick is the same size and 2 tenths of a second slower than Johnson.

Are you willing to gamble that all the top backs are gone leaving us the possibility that we go into the season with the running game in shambles AGAIN?

IF we select Dorsey or Ellis with our first selection I would have no problem taking Charles or Johnson with our second pick (I actually would prefer Johnson). IF we cannot select a DT in Rd. 1 then we must select Bryant, Sims, Okam, Laws in the second. WE must have a playmaker at DT out of this draft. I believe the LBer corp will be much improved (Jeanty, Brooks, Thurman, Henderson, Pollack can't all be out for the season again can they?). We have addressed the lack of playmakers on the edge by picking up Odom and by putting Geathers back in his natural position. The defensive backfield is strong with young guys (a late third or fourth selection at Safety might be warranted). We have youth and depth on the oline. TE will be taken care of if Utecht passes The Match Game.

At this point after DT, nothing on the team is as critical as shoring up the Run Game and Johnson would also give us a playmaker at KR for the first time since Tremain Mack.

My Draft board for RBs are:

1) McFadden

2) Stewart

3) Mendenhall (almost 2a)

4) Chris Johnson

5) Charles

6) Rice

7) Choice

8) Forte

9) Hart

10) Kevin Smith

Reason be damned, Mike Brown will surely pick Chris Johnson because he has a fetish the last name.

[kingwilly]

Wraith,

Consider this option:

Bypass taking an rb in r1-5 and give a guy like Tony Temple a go late day 2 or even as a a free-agent. Guy has proven his worth in the Big 12 and is very underrated. In many ways, he is another Watson. No real downsides and won't cost a high-value pick.

The fall-off between an r2 LB/DT/DE/WR and what you can get in r5-UDFA is monumental. The same can't be said for fall-off between a guy like Johnson, who WILL go in r2-3, and a guy like Temple.

[HairOnFire]

McFadden, Mendenhall, Stewart, Charles, Johnson, Rice, Forte, and Choice all have grades going into the draft that indicate that they will be gone by the time we get our compensatory selection in the 3rd Rd.

I guess it boils down to this. I've said for months that the perfect slot for drafting a new starting RB, if you really feel it's a must need, is with the 2nd round pick. So we're in agreement on that point. Where we disagree is thinking Chris Johnson is worthy of consideration at THAT spot, especially when compared to the other RB prospects who should be available with that pick. For me Johnson becomes a truly attractive option only if he's still available in the 3rd round....which I think he will be.

[bryce40]

Wraith,

Consider this option:

Bypass taking an rb in r1-5 and give a guy like Tony Temple a go late day 2 or even as a a free-agent. Guy has proven his worth in the Big 12 and is very underrated. In many ways, he is another Watson. No real downsides and won't cost a high-value pick.

The fall-off between an r2 LB/DT/DE/WR and what you can get in r5-UDFA is monumental. The same can't be said for fall-off between a guy like Johnson, who WILL go in r2-3, and a guy like Temple.

I like your thinking.

Being from MO I got to see Temple a lot and liked what I saw; most people will laugh at this, but given the chance he will be a better pro back than McFadden. Also anyone who saw Mizzou's bowl game knows Temple can be a workhorse which is what this team needs. I also like the fact that he will gut it out through injury. I must say though, I wouldn't be suprised if he's taken in the 3rd or 4th round.

[Wraith]

It is personal preferrance here but there is a big difference between 4.54 and 4.24 and it would be one thing if Johnson's speed did not translate to the football field but running against West Virginia, North Carolina, Southern Miss, and Boise State all good teams with NFL caliber players he made them look like they were running in mud. That kind of ability is uncoachable and what he would bring to the Bengals is a player that if he gets in space is a threat to go all the way every time. The Bengals don't have a player like that except for CJ and Henry and certainly haven't had a player like that out of the backfield since JB. Temple is a heck of a running back and was superb for Missouri and is VERY underrated but he doesn't possess game breaking ability the way that Johnson does, the only other back in this draft that has that ability is McFadden.

[kingwilly]

McFadden, Mendenhall, Stewart, Charles, Johnson, Rice, Forte, and Choice all have grades going into the draft that indicate that they will be gone by the time we get our compensatory selection in the 3rd Rd.

I guess it boils down to this. I've said for months that the perfect slot for drafting a new starting RB, if you really feel it's a must need, is with the 2nd round pick. So we're in agreement on that point. Where we disagree is thinking Chris Johnson is worthy of consideration at THAT spot, especially when compared to the other RB prospects who should be available with that pick. For me Johnson becomes a truly attractive option only if he's still available in the 3rd round....which I think he will be.

If combine stats have shown us anything, it's that an amazing combine, which as we all can see Johnson had, will shoot a guy right up the chart. Look at Gholston.

I really doubt that Johnson will be there in r3. He will leapfrog past many of the Rb's on combine stats alone. You think Denver or ATL or HOU or DET isn't aware of this guys upsides?

I just don't see how we could justify burning one of two R2's on a luxury pick like Johnson when staring right at us is an abyssmal DT rotation, a limited and unstable LB corp, a DE crew with little proven depth and obvious needs to improve depth/talent at WR and OL.

[bryce40]

It is personal preferrance here but there is a big difference between 4.54 and 4.24 and it would be one thing if Johnson's speed did not translate to the football field but running against West Virginia, North Carolina, Southern Miss, and Boise State all good teams with NFL caliber players he made them look like they were running in mud. That kind of ability is uncoachable and what he would bring to the Bengals is a player that if he gets in space is a threat to go all the way every time. The Bengals don't have a player like that except for CJ and Henry and certainly haven't had a player like that out of the backfield since JB. Temple is a heck of a running back and was superb for Missouri and is VERY underrated but he doesn't possess game breaking ability the way that Johnson does, the only other back in this draft that has that ability is McFadden.

My problem is I would rather have a workhorse RB than a speed guy. Plus I also have seen too many speed guys in college who's game didn't transalate to the pro game. Which is always a gamble no matter who you take in the draft. i just feel this team needs a workhorse back worse than it needs a speed guy. Plus I really don't want us to draft a RB before Rd. 3 at the absolute earliest and prefer our late Rd. 3 pick or rd 4 or later with all the RB's in this draft.

[kingwilly]

It is personal preferrance here but there is a big difference between 4.54 and 4.24 and it would be one thing if Johnson's speed did not translate to the football field but running against West Virginia, North Carolina, Southern Miss, and Boise State all good teams with NFL caliber players he made them look like they were running in mud. That kind of ability is uncoachable and what he would bring to the Bengals is a player that if he gets in space is a threat to go all the way every time. The Bengals don't have a player like that except for CJ and Henry and certainly haven't had a player like that out of the backfield since JB. Temple is a heck of a running back and was superb for Missouri and is VERY underrated but he doesn't possess game breaking ability the way that Johnson does, the only other back in this draft that has that ability is McFadden.

Yes, speed can't be coached. And 4.24 is a very impressive stat, however every 10th of a second in a 40yrd dash time is 6 inches.

I am not that enamored with McFadden and the foolish team who takes him in r1 may be very disappointed. He is certainly not Adrain Peterson.

DeDe has the exact same "all the way" threat as this guy. Since Brat has shown no affection for fully integrating this type player into his, at times, asinine schemes I just don't see them "finding religion" should they draft Johnson, who exemplifies the exact same abilities as DeDe.

[bryce40]

I say we just draft Ian Johnson with our #9 overall pick.

[HairOnFire]

I really doubt that Johnson will be there in r3. He will leapfrog past many of the Rb's on combine stats alone. You think Denver or ATL or HOU or DET isn't aware of this guys upsides?

We're all aware of his upside. Speed kills. What I'm saying is I'd be fine with bypassing Johnson in the 2nd even if I knew he wouldn't be there in the 3rd.

Simply put, he's simply not someone I'd be willing to pull the trigger on at #46.

[Wraith]

We might do that next year but since Ian Johnson is not draft eligible this year I think it would be a wasted pick

DeDe Dorsey is nowhere near the athlete that Chris Johnson is. check his numbers when he came out of Lindenwood in '06.

and compare them to the following

4.24 / 40

10'10" Broad

35" Vert.

This will be my last response on this topic because I feel I am beating a dead horse and I am by no means always right I was dead wrong on Manny Lawson (up until this point) for example and I might be completely wrong on this point as well but, 6 inches in football is the difference between a guy making a tackle and missing a tackle completely. Check out that kick return vs. Southern Miss in '06, #23 had Johnson dead to rights a perfect angle and Johnson cruised right passed him without being touched. Brat's play calling often frustrates me as well but maybe he doesn't run isolation screens and dump-off options because he doesn't have guys who can make something out of them and prefers to try to get the ball to his best athletes. Again Watson and Dorsey, while they are very good backs, are not in the same ball park as Johnson athleticly.

[bryce40]

We might do that next year but since he is not draft eligible this year I think it would be a wasted pick

We could go ahead and draft him though; then have the rights to him next year already wrapped up.

[Spor_tees]

Combine #'s for Johnson.

4.24/40, 10'10" Broad Jump, 35" vert. Yes, I said 4.24/40. I believe that is the fastest time ever at the combine.

The Bengals have had luck with small speed backs that can catch run and block, his name was James Brooks and was arguably the best RB in Bengals history. I think Johnson can be that kind of player, the kind of burst he has in the open field is Willie Parker-esque and that seems to have done ok for Pittsburgh. If available in in the second I would take him. Comparing Johnson to DeDe Dorsey is not an apples to apples comparison, Dorsey had an untutored 4.59 before speed drills helped him drop it to 4.38 which is in any case not in Johnson's category. Dorsey went to

Lindenwood College which is an NAIA school. Chris Johnson had 154 Rushing/Receiving Yards and 3 TDs against North Carolina, 89 Yards and 1 TD against West Virginia, A Whooping 313 Yards and 4 TDs against Memphis, and 255 Yards and 2 TDs against Boise State in the Hawai'i Bowl. This is against Division 1 football teams when he was the main/only offensive option. He is also an incredible Kick Returner averaging over 28 yards per return. IMHO this guy is a faster version of Maurice Jones Drew.

The Bengals didn't draft Brooks...they got him in a trade from Sand Diego

[Wraith]

True but that does not diminish the fact that he led the Bengals to a Super Bowl and was arguably the best back in franchise history

[walzav29]

Back to Mendenhall then. He is power and speed. I love Chris Johnson in the 2nd. He will not be there in the 3rd. Marvin has said he wants to fall in love with the running game. The Bengals don't have a running back. How can they depend on any of the guys they have?

[HoosierCat]

Perry may never be able to play again, Irons has a degenerative problem.

Did I miss something here? Why may Perry "never play again"? What's the source for Irons' "degenerative problem"?

[walzav29]

Perry is finished, and if you haven't noticed there has been no good news on Kenny Irons.

[HoosierCat]

Perry is finished, and if you haven't noticed there has been no good news on Kenny Irons.

Well, that would be news to Lewis, who said in his not-long-ago press conference they were hoping for Perry's return and were just a little unsure" whether Irons would be ready for camp (Irons said in January he would be).

Perry done? Irons has a degenerative condition? Sources, people, sources, otherwise I'm forced to call BS.

[Wraith]

Perry being done is coming from personal observation, so you can call BS on that if you wish but I simply do not see him playing another down for the Bengals or anyone else. As far as Kenny Irons, I read it can't find it now so I have no sources and hope for the best, so yes you can call BS on the entire Chris Perry and Kenny Irons topic and for the record, I would love to be wrong and to have a healthy Rudi and Kenny Irons leading the Bengals to a Super Bowl I certainly do not want to draft offense if there is no reason to.

Mea Culpa on Kenny Irons if I had bad information

[kingwilly]

We might do that next year but since Ian Johnson is not draft eligible this year I think it would be a wasted pick

DeDe Dorsey is nowhere near the athlete that Chris Johnson is. check his numbers when he came out of Lindenwood in '06.

and compare them to the following

4.24 / 40

10'10" Broad

35" Vert.

This will be my last response on this topic because I feel I am beating a dead horse and I am by no means always right I was dead wrong on Manny Lawson (up until this point) for example and I might be completely wrong on this point as well but, 6 inches in football is the difference between a guy making a tackle and missing a tackle completely. Check out that kick return vs. Southern Miss in '06, #23 had Johnson dead to rights a perfect angle and Johnson cruised right passed him without being touched. Brat's play calling often frustrates me as well but maybe he doesn't run isolation screens and dump-off options because he doesn't have guys who can make something out of them and prefers to try to get the ball to his best athletes. Again Watson and Dorsey, while they are very good backs, are not in the same ball park as Johnson athleticly.

I respect your opinion but think we just disagree philosophically on what the bengals should do. There are many worse scenarios than if we took Chris Johsnon at 46, so while I hope they focus on things in a different way than you might, I agree that Chris Johnson is an amazing guy who would probably help this team in very positive ways.

[HairOnFire]

There are many worse scenarios than if we took Chris Johsnon at 46, so while I hope they focus on things in a different way than you might, I agree that Chris Johnson is an amazing guy who would probably help this team in very positive ways.

Agreed. I may have very little love for the idea, but it's just a matter of personal preference.

If Johnson is the pick at #46 I won't throw things at my television or threaten to kick Mike Brown in the nads. I simply like my new television too much for that and I'm unconvinced that anyone benefits from kicking old men in the stones.

What can you do beyond crossing your fingers and hoping they finally picked the right RB?

[bryce40]

What can you do beyond crossing your fingers and hoping they finally picked the right RB?

Pray the Browns make all the wrong moves?

[BengalszoneBilly]

Back to Mendenhall then. He is power and speed. I love Chris Johnson in the 2nd. He will not be there in the 3rd. Marvin has said he wants to fall in love with the running game. The Bengals don't have a running back. How can they depend on any of the guys they have?

As much as it would royally piss me the f**k off with any of the top DT's still on the board, but I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the Bengals take Mendenhall #1 in the draft. They're packin' much more wood for him than McFadden.

[HoosierCat]

Perry hopeful

By GEOFF HOBSON

March 18, 2008

Posted: 8 p.m.

Let's see.

Except for a few practices, the last time Bengals running back Chris Perry was on the field was 478 days ago, when he not only broke, but dislocated his ankle against the Browns in the Nov. 26, 2006 shutout.

Another step in the road back takes place next Monday, when he says he's been told he'll be able to participate in the Bengals offseason program that begins then.

In a phone interview Tuesday, Perry said this is the best he's felt, literally, in years. After stepping up his racquetball and boxing regimens that he's turned to in the rehab, Perry is confident that he can follow through on the plan that puts him on the field for spring practices in early May.

He suffered a devastating injury for a running back. His game is cutting and acceleration and the ankle is everything. While he thinks it's going to be OK, nobody knows until he gets on the field.

"It doesn't feel too different than it did before," Perry said. "I feel good. The thing now is to try and get into game shape. I think the Bengals did the right thing last year when they (put me on injured reserve in the middle of the season) and didn't rush me back. That was a gracious thing to do. I just wasn't ready and they've let me work back."

One thing is for sure. He has shelved everything for the rehab. He loves to travel—one offseason he went to Europe—but he didn't do go anywhere this year. He had hoped to get a European trip together for children to expose them to other cultures, but that project, like everything else, has been put on hold.

"I've just been focusing on getting healthy," Perry said. "It's really the only thing I've been thinking about."

His litany of NFL injuries are almost beyond belief, starting with the sports hernia that wiped out all but two games of his rookie year and the ankle that has eliminated the last 21 games of his third and fourth seasons.

Now in Year Five, with the buzz about Kenny Watson and Rudi Johnson and DeDe Dorsey, he says he doesn't feel like the forgotten man. If he comes back close to his '05 form—4.6 yards per 61 rushes—he solves a lot of problems.

"I haven't really thought about it," he said about being forgotten. "I can't worry about that. I'm just trying to get better.

"The one thing I do miss is making a difference; making an impact in the game. That's what I'm trying to get back to."

[BengalszoneBilly]

"The one thing I do miss is making a difference; making an impact in the game. That's what I'm trying to get back to."

Reminiscing about his college days. How quaint.