Justin Smith

[sparky151]

Nothing against Justin personally, but I hope he goes to another team. The Bengals defense couldn't get any pressure on the QB last year. Justin playes RDE which is supposed to be a team's best pass rusher. He only had 2 sacks. I think we could spend the money more effectively on another defender and replace his production with others too.

[HairOnFire]

Well, of course. I didn't intend to imply that anybody could come in and perform as well or better than Justin. My point is that rookies can play well and one should not necessarily count on a precipitous drop in production from Justin's replacement, should he arrive as a rookie this year.

I think too many people are looking only at the lack of sacks produced last season. Finding a player who can match Smith's sack production in an average season isn't a given, and his tackle production is well above average.

I'm not trying to be difficult, but I sincerely believe that replacing Justin is going to be more difficult than most think. That said, it's his contract status that becomes a deal breaker for me, and I'm not even talking about him being franchise tagged. For me it's the idea that he's rejected all attempts to sign him to a long-term deal for over two years, more like three when you get right down to it, and it's been leaked that the two sides have never been very close to reaching a deal. Couple that with his remarks about not being used correctly, and I don't think he wants to stay even if fairly paid.

[jditty47]

i hate that justin smith plays as much as he does. it makes me sick to see him out there on any third down. i just know before the snap that he isn't going to get any kind of pressure. It's not just him I agree, but he's the one that makes over 8 million a year. If he was on my team, he would play first and 2nd down only or I would rotate him out every other series. I don't care if hes physically capable of lasting the entire game by playing every play, you can't rush the passer by doing the same thing all game long on the line, you have to mix it up - especially since hes not in the top tier of DE's.

[BengalszoneBilly]

i just know before the snap that he isn't going to get any kind of pressure. It's not just him I agree, but he's the one that makes over 8 million a year.

Well hooray that he's got an agent good enough to work that out for him. If any of us were in his shoes we'd be trying to do the same.

As far as "It's not just him I agree", I do as well. That blame falls squarely on our recently fired DC Chucky. His notoriously soft pressure schemes didn't help anyones sack numbers on this team.

Right now I'm hoping Zimmer is indeed hired, as I feel he's of the opposite defensive mindset that Bresnahan possessed.

[HoosierCat]

I'm not trying to be difficult, but I sincerely believe that replacing Justin is going to be more difficult than most think.

Agreed.

That said, it's his contract status that becomes a deal breaker for me, and I'm not even talking about him being franchise tagged. For me it's the idea that he's rejected all attempts to sign him to a long-term deal for over two years, more like three when you get right down to it, and it's been leaked that the two sides have never been very close to reaching a deal. Couple that with his remarks about not being used correctly, and I don't think he wants to stay even if fairly paid.

Put enough coin on the table and he will sign. I'm certainly not anxious for them to back the Brinks truck up to his locker -- but I'd rather see them do that, versus letting him walk and then watching the team do its usual nothing in FA.

[kingwilly]

I'm not trying to be difficult, but I sincerely believe that replacing Justin is going to be more difficult than most think.

Agreed.

Let's put a qulaifyer on this: Replacing him, from a player-for-player view, might be tough for the Bengals but for some reason I think other teams in the league could.

That said, it's his contract status that becomes a deal breaker for me, and I'm not even talking about him being franchise tagged. For me it's the idea that he's rejected all attempts to sign him to a long-term deal for over two years, more like three when you get right down to it, and it's been leaked that the two sides have never been very close to reaching a deal. Couple that with his remarks about not being used correctly, and I don't think he wants to stay even if fairly paid.

Put enough coin on the table and he will sign. I'm certainly not anxious for them to back the Brinks truck up to his locker -- but I'd rather see them do that, versus letting him walk and then watching the team do its usual nothing in FA.

Now, string these two together and you will see why it is important for Justin to move on. If he stays, it will be because he was paid top-line DE money, heck it will eed to surpass Jumpy Jr.'s deal by a large margin. If he goes, then the team will be forced to address the position in the draft/FA. The team will HAVE to deal with it. This is better than giving such a large, unwarranted pile of money to Justin. So what if Justin has "well above average tackle production"? Kitna also throws for "well above average yardage".

[HairOnFire]

Put enough coin on the table and he will sign. I'm certainly not anxious for them to back the Brinks truck up to his locker -- but I'd rather see them do that, versus letting him walk and then watching the team do its usual nothing in FA.

So what? Claiming a person will sign the moment you throw a ridiculous amount of coin at their feet is almost meaningless. The challenge is always twofold, in the sense that you're always attempting to get a fair deal done while avoiding a horrible one at all costs. (Pun intended.)

Over the years I've been one of Justin's loudest supporters, but there's no way I allow the Brinks truck the leave the garage....not unless Zimmer claims he's the key to immediate success, which I strongly doubt he'll do. In fact, Zimmer has a very strong history of working with and developing rookies quickly. And there's the proverbial rub because the timing is now as perfect as it'll ever be for allowing a new coordinator to rebuild this defense using players he's personally handpicked.

As for letting Justin walk AND doing nothing in free agency, it won't happen.....and I think you know it. However, it's a pretty good bet that whatever they do in free agency it will continue to disappoint you, and it think that would remain true even if they do many of the things you claim to support, like retaining Landon Johnson and Stacey Andrews.

[HairOnFire]

If he stays, it will be because he was paid top-line DE money, heck it will need to surpass Jumpy Jr.'s deal by a large margin. If he goes, then the team will be forced to address the position in the draft/FA. The team will HAVE to deal with it.

The biggest concern I have relates to the coming draft falling in such a manner that the Bengals miss or pass on the DE prospects with real upside, and as a result either draft and commit themselves long term to a lesser player in the mid rounds OR they pass on the position altogether, putting DE at the top of their shopping lists for the next year.

[HoosierCat]

As for letting Justin walk AND doing nothing in free agency, it won't happen.

It won't? What in the Bengals' FA history gives you such confidence?

However, it's a pretty good bet that whatever they do in free agency it will continue to disappoint you, and it think that would remain true even if they do many of the things you claim to support, like retaining Landon Johnson and Stacey Andrews.

Where have I said I want to keep Landon and Andrews? I don't think either is anything special (tho it remains possible Stacy could still emerge). What I have said is that I fully expect the Bengals to overpay for guys like Landon and Stacy and Justin. Remember, we're only one or two players away.

[walshfan]

Mike Brown likes Smith... that in itself shows how incompetent he is at analyzing abilites.

Smith's 2 sacks have made it difficult to justify re signing him though...

I think he walks.. and good riddence.... bring on Calais Campbell now!