Brian Billick

[HoosierCat]

Please, it's less of a warning than a pointless excerise built around trying to voice as many vauge generalities about two men who were once linked, but haven't worked together in six or seven years.

Where have I said anything about Marvin and Billick once coaching together? If this article had been written following the firing of any other coach on any other team, it would be just as applicable.

And what are these "vague generalities?" What points I checked off haven't been discussed at length, not just by the media and fans, but by both Bengals players and Marvin Lewis? Heck, haven't you ranted at length about the need to get rid of Chad to improve vague generalities like locker room discipline?

And as for the so-called triumverate, with few exceptions

Nice try.

Brian Billick gets fired, in large part because of a near decade long stretch of QB futility, and the lunatic fringe somehow manages to morph the thread into a "warning" to Marvin Lewis.

Yep, because if Marvin continues to fail on the opposite side of the ball, he'll be out the door, too. But according to you that's just crazy talk...

[HairOnFire]

Where have I said anything about Marvin and Billick once coaching together? If this article had been written following the firing of any other coach on any other team, it would be just as applicable.

That's just the point. If Billick and Lewis hadn't been on the same staff when the Ravens won a championship the article you posted, and then elaborated on at length, wouldn't have been written at all.

And what are these "vague generalities?" What points I checked off haven't been discussed at length, not just by the media and fans, but by both Bengals players and Marvin Lewis?

What coach isn't guilty of making game management mistakes? What teams success isn't impacted by injuries? What team doesn't have a player who not only feels underpaid, but thinks he can better his bargaining position by talking about it in the press? And name me a franchise that doesn't have star players questioning the moves made by the coaching staff or the front office? Hell, even Tom Brady spent the previous two seasons barking about the Patriots short passing scheme and the lack of quality wideouts on the Patriot roster.

Nice try.

Right back at ya'. Your now familiar rant about the three-headed hydra and Marvin's attempts to force a GM down their collective throats is almost entirelly based upon crap articles and PFT rumors.

Yep, because if Marvin continues to fail on the opposite side of the ball, he'll be out the door, too. But according to you that's just crazy talk...

Marvin Lewis may be shown the door based upon his own record of failure, but if and when that day comes the decision won't have very much to do with the things he, and many other coaches, have in common with Brian Billick.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

That's not an indictment, simply a warning. If things don't turn around fairly quickly, Marvin will (and arguably should) go the way of Brian.

Please, it's less of a warning than a pointless excerise built around trying to voice as many vauge generalities about two men who were once linked, but haven't worked together in six or seven years.

And a quick reminder for whining Bengal fans who insist this franchise suffers from lower standards than the Ravens. Brian Billick wasn't fired until his record of offensive futility reached nine seasons, nearly twice as long as Lewis's defenses have struggled.

Conveniently leaving out playoff appearances and a Superbowl ring there, eh? Maybe that had something to do with why Billick hung around that long?

[HoosierCat]

That's just the point. If Billick and Lewis hadn't been on the same staff when the Ravens won a championship the article you posted, and then elaborated on at length, wouldn't have been written at all.

Again, if this had been written about any other coach, it would be just as applicable. The old coaching connection between the two was never mentioned by anyone but you and has nothing to do with the issue.

What coach isn't guilty of making game management mistakes? What teams success isn't impacted by injuries? What team doesn't have a player who not only feels underpaid, but thinks he can better his bargaining position by talking about it in the press? And name me a franchise that doesn't have star players questioning the moves made by the coaching staff or the front office?

So I guess we're off of vague generalities and on to concrete problems, eh? Just because similar things happen elsewhere doesn't mean they can be dismissed as not a threat to Marvin's tenure.

Your now familiar rant about the three-headed hydra and Marvin's attempts to force a GM down their collective throats is almost entirelly

Nice try.

Marvin Lewis may be shown the door based upon his own record of failure, but if and when that day comes the decision won't have very much to do with the things he, and many other coaches, have in common with Brian Billick.

I didn't say Marvin had anything in common with Billick. My point is that the state of the Ravens is distressingly similar to the state of the Bengals, which could quickly lead to Marvin getting canned if it isn't fixed.

[HairOnFire]

Conveniently leaving out playoff appearances and a Superbowl ring there, eh? Maybe that had something to do with why Billick hung around that long?

Conveniently reminding all of us that Marvin Lewis wears the same Super Bowl ring that Billick has, and often gets more credit for that teams championship than Billick. And rightfully so.

[HairOnFire]

The old coaching connection between the two was never mentioned by anyone but you and has nothing to do with the issue.

C'mon, don't be deliberately stupid. Of course it has EVERYTHING to do with the issue. It's a freaking Baltimore Sun article.

Just because similar things happen elsewhere doesn't mean they can be dismissed as not a threat to Marvin's tenure.

Last time I checked the QB position wasn't a very big problem for Lewis.

I didn't say Marvin had anything in common with Billick. My point is that the state of the Ravens is distressingly similar to the state of the Bengals, which could quickly lead to Marvin getting canned if it isn't fixed.

The Raven team looks nothing like the Bengals, and a far better argument can be made that they're polar opposites in almost every way that matters.

[HoosierCat]

C'mon, don't be deliberately stupid. Of course it has EVERYTHING to do with the issue. It's a freaking Baltimore Sun article.

Uhhh...yeah, it is. So what? I was looking for the local take on why Billick got axed, so I should have gone to where? The Detroit Free Press? The fact that it was the Ravens whose set of problems are so congruent with the Bengals', and that they were coached by a guy who used to coach with Marvin, is just coincidence. If the team with all these issues had instead been, say, the Miami Dolphins, and were then the foundation of Cam Cameron getting fired, and this column written by a Miami sportswriter for the Miami Herald -- it would make absolutely no difference. I would still find the similarities between that hypothetical Dolphins squad and the current Bengals one striking, and a warning to Lewis.

Last time I checked the QB position wasn't a very big problem for Lewis.

No, but the Bengals hired a defensive guru who has been unable to fix the defense. The Ravens hired an offensive guru who was unable to fix the offense. If you don't see the parallel, I can't help you.

The Raven team looks nothing like the Bengals

Actually, it does -- read Preston's column. Again, a coach unable to come through in his supposed area of expertise? Check. An undisciplined locker room? Check. Key players questioning the coaching? Check. And on and on. All those problems that finally caught up to Billick in Baltimore are the same ones that are heating up Marvin's seat.

[HairOnFire]

I was looking for the local take on why Billick got axed, so I should have gone to where? The Detroit Free Press?

Well, seeing how hard you tried I'm sure you could have morphed almost any story about why a head coach was fired into a "warning" directed at Marvin Lewis. But it was probably easier to do with the Baltimore Sun article as the've previously written multiple articles comparing the fates of Lewis and Billick.

If the team with all these issues had instead been, say, the Miami Dolphins, and were then the foundation of Cam Cameron getting fired, and this column written by a Miami sportswriter for the Miami Herald -- it would make absolutely no difference. I would still find the similarities between that hypothetical Dolphins squad and the current Bengals one striking, and a warning to Lewis.

The fact that there's a common thread connecting most fired coaches is exactly why I described the rant as vague and based in generalities. That said, you probably picked the hypothetical Dolphins for your comparison precisely because they fit the Billick profile better than Marvin Lewi's Bengals. After all, the Dolphins have an aging defense and a long and growing history of bad QB choices. But obviously Cameron hasn't been at the helm for nearly as long as Billick was, nor has Marvin Lewis. And that's a critical point because the Bengals are currently being accused of having lower firing standards than the Ravens despite the fact that Billick failed over and over again in exactly the same ways for nearly twice as long.

Again, a coach unable to come through in his supposed area of expertise? Check. An undisciplined locker room? Check. Key players questioning the coaching? Check. And on and on. All those problems that finally caught up to Billick in Baltimore are the same ones that are heating up Marvin's seat.

But with the exception of the first point all of those things are likely true whenever a head coach gets fired. And as for the first point, Billick repeatedly failed over nine seasons, in his own area of expertise, soley due to the choices and decisions he made at the most critical positions, QB and WR. By comparison, Lewis's failures can largely be traced to his opening strategy of adding to an already competent offense, a decision that dictated Lewis attempt to build a defense around too many 2nd day draftees until very recently. Finally, factor in the staggering number of injuries Lewis has been forced to adjust to at the core of his rebuilding efforts.

Just saying...

[HoosierCat]

Well, seeing how hard you tried

It isn't hard to see the similarities between the ravens and the bengals these days. I didn't have to change or explain or expand on anything...just use some boldface tags. Ain't hard. You OTOH seem to be spinning furiously to deny anything in common.

But it was probably easier to do with the Baltimore Sun article as the've previously written multiple articles comparing the fates of Lewis and Billick.

Actually, it was probably easier to do because he's been the only head coach fired.

The fact that there's a common thread connecting most fired coaches is exactly why I described the rant as vague and based in generalities.

The fact that there's a common thread, which youve just admitted, proves my point. If there's a common thread, then Marvin, like all those other fired coaches, better get to work, right?

That said, you probably picked the hypothetical Dolphins for your comparison precisely because they fit the Billick profile better than Marvin Lewi's Bengals.

No, I picked the Dolphins because I happened to click back to this thread after reading a PFT piece that Cameron is going to get canned now that they've hired a GM. It just happened to be the team on my mind. I wish I were as devious as you seem to believe, but you're reading way too much into my posts.

[HairOnFire]

It isn't hard to see the similarities between the ravens and the bengals these days. I didn't have to change or explain or expand on anything...just use some boldface tags. Ain't hard. You OTOH seem to be spinning furiously to deny anything in common.

It ain't hard when you're motivated, right? The fact remains that the two teams aren't built the same way, aren't structured the same way, and don't face the same problems going forward.

The fact that there's a common thread, which youve just admitted, proves my point. If there's a common thread, then....

If there's a common thread that applies in all cases then you've admitted you're doing nothing but blather about generalities. In fact, the single somewhat unique thing that can be said about both men is how they've struggled in the very areas that they built their reputations on, but that's been said of Tony Dungy and a host of others. So the one thing that's unique in this comparison isn't really very unique at all.

[HoosierCat]

The fact remains that the two teams aren't built the same way, aren't structured the same way, and don't face the same problems going forward.

They may not be built or structured the same way, but I never said they were. But they do face many common problems going forward, as any fair reading of Preston's piece makes clear.

[BengalszoneBilly]

Hilarious. Only on a Bengal message board could the firing of Brian Billick morph into an indictment of Marvin Lewis.

Idiots.

This coming from someone who called 2007 a ten win season for the Bengals? Good Lord. At least try to regain a little credibility before slinging derogatory names at people who can call the game far better than you.

[HairOnFire]

This coming from someone who called 2007 a ten win season for the Bengals? Good Lord. At least try to regain a little credibility before slinging derogatory names at people who can call the game far better than you.

With all due respect, go play with your titties and leave the football talk to others.

[BengalszoneBilly]

This coming from someone who called 2007 a ten win season for the Bengals? Good Lord. At least try to regain a little credibility before slinging derogatory names at people who can call the game far better than you.

With all due respect, go play with your titties and leave the football talk to others.

Hardly the cred you're looking for. The records speak for themselves, and my statements about problems looming from pre-season on proved true. Yours? Not so much.

[HairOnFire]

The records speak for themselves, and my statements about problems looming from pre-season on proved true. Yours? Not so much.

I think it's funny when posters finally get something right, and then go out of their way to remind people of their big day. No matter though. Props again to you, BoobieBoy.

That said, this thread is about Brian Billick being fired...and what it might mean in regards to Marvin Lewis. (Nothing) Sadly, I'm not sure what your feelings were on the subject, but I'm sure if you once said something meaningful on this subject in the distant past you'll promptly bump a year-old thread documenting your brilliance.

Oh, I almost forgot. Here's your mandatory smilie.

[BengalszoneBilly]

The records speak for themselves, and my statements about problems looming from pre-season on proved true. Yours? Not so much.

I think it's funny when posters finally get something right, and then go out of their way to remind people of their big day. No matter though. Props again to you, BoobieBoy.

That said, this thread is about Brian Billick being fired...and what it might mean in regards to Marvin Lewis. (Nothing) Sadly, I'm not sure what your feelings were on the subject, but I'm sure if you once said something meaningful on this subject in the distant past you'll promptly bump a year-old thread documenting your brilliance.

Oh, I almost forgot. Here's your mandatory smilie.

Finally? That gave me an even bigger smilie. BTW, the thread I bumped was extemely relevant to today. We'll do it again next year, and I'm sure you'll do better despite statements like this...

I've been a blind homer since '68.

'nuff said, ehh?

I honestly don't believe it, but we're all "Homers" to a degree. Some more blindly than others. We just take different paths arriving there.

[ArmyBengal]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/rumors/post/Ra...e?urn=nfl,59721

Well, it now appears the Ravens are pursuing the Cowboys Offensive Coordinator, Jason Garrett, as their new Head Coach. This wouldn't bother me in the least... While I think he's done a good job in Dallas, I'm not sure he's ready for a HC position just yet. Anyway, this could open the door to Rex Ryan being a bigger consideration for the Bengals...

WHODEY !!!

[HairOnFire]

Finally? That gave me an even bigger smilie.

It was supposed to. I mean c'mon, we're still joking, right?

BTW, the thread I bumped was extemely relevant to today.

It is and it isn't. I didn't need to see an old thread or poll to remember that 65 - 70% of Bengal fans had picked 10 wins as a realistic goal before the season began. Nor did I need a reminder that those who were extremely negative about everything were richly rewarded last season.

We'll do it again next year, and I'm sure you'll do better....

I wouldn't count on it. I'm ususally very good at those types of predictions...never missing by more than a single game in the last ten or so years with the exception of the year prior to Lewis being hired (-4). But I can't predict what Chad's mood will be on any given day, the number of injuries the team will suffer, or a host of other things. So next season all I'll be doing is throwing another dart at the board and hoping for the best....while others will throw their dart and expect the worst.

Such is life in Bengala, ehhh?

[BengalszoneBilly]

Finally? That gave me an even bigger smilie.

It was supposed to. I mean c'mon, we're still joking, right?

BTW, the thread I bumped was extemely relevant to today.

It is and it isn't. I didn't need to see an old thread or poll to remember that 65 - 70% of Bengal fans had picked 10 wins as a realistic goal before the season began. Nor did I need a reminder that those who were extremely negative about everything were richly rewarded last season.

We'll do it again next year, and I'm sure you'll do better....

I wouldn't count on it. I'm ususally very good at those types of predictions...never missing by more than a single game in the last ten or so years with the exception of the year prior to Lewis being hired (-4). But I can't predict what Chad's mood will be on any given day, the number of injuries the team will suffer, or a host of other things. So next season all I'll be doing is throwing another dart at the board and hoping for the best....while others will throw their dart and expect the worst.

Such is life in Bengala, ehhh?

Granted. It is. To be clear I never hope for the worst for my team. My prognistications come out of what I feel from overall pre-season performance, (NOT wins) and I go with it. As far as predicting teams records, it closer to an educated guess with a roll of the dice thrown in as spice. As far as next year, I hope the current changes taking place within the organization bears some fruit for the Bengals next year, and I can feel confident in forecasting 10+ wins for the Bengals. Time will tell...

[ArmyBengal]

Confident in 10+ wins next season ?? Wow, here's to hoping I am dead wrong like I was this pre-season, but looking at the schedule and not knowing where the team is going to be come training camp (In regards to personel) 8-8 is looking about right.

WHODEY !!!

[BengalszoneBilly]

Confident in 10+ wins next season ??

Hold your horses there Army...I said I hope I could be confident enough in the Bengals next season to call that many wins. Ask me right after the 2008 preseason ends.