chad on nfl countdown

[711chad]

anybody catch that keyshawn one on one interview with chad? it was pretty good it helped me understand what this team is going thru

[redsrule2500]

Nope, missed it! I did see TJ on the NFL Network which was also very interesting. However, I think that was before last weekend...blah

[Sundance_Kid]

I like him, want him around... but all he did was dodge questions... furthermore, I really don't think he has the IQ to stun anyone with well thought out, definitive answers anyway... so I could be wrong about the 'dodging'

[agreen_112]

Here's the Linky

I liked what it said under the vid too. Keyshawn spent his entire career being an outspoken maverick in the NFL but now that he's got a suit on behind the desk, he's turned into a complete tool. When the Bengals were winning, Chad Johnson was a great thing for the NFL, he was fun and happy (unlike the mean spirited Terrell Owens). But now that the team is 1-4, he's a distraction... how predictable

[Jet23]

I actually thought that KJ asked some very good and tough questions. Like he said, he never danced. But, he did pout when he didn't get the ball. He also matured into a veteran receiver. I hope that CJ will do the same...eventually.

Right now, it's still all about Chad though. Look at me, I'm not talking. Look at me, I'm a team player. I see better than I hear. Just do it.

[The Brew Man]

I thought Key was really off base and hypocritical in his assessment of Chad and got caught with his pants down.

[HairOnFire]

Sam Farmer of the Los Angeles did his 10 Questions thing again this morning and question #2 asked whether Chad could stop being selfish, find his way back to an endzone he hasn't seen since week two, and actually focus on beating the Steelers. He finished up by tagging our favorite manchild....Mr.Chad-erbox.

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Chad's been in the league 7 years now - either the Bengals' force him to act like a professional or he never will...at least for more than a few games at a time. Marvin has let him get away with it far too long, I know he doesn't like it, but he's never done anything about it either ultimately (disciplinary action).

Plus he sells merchandise and ultimately, tickets - Mike Brown's priority.

[HairOnFire]

Chris Mortenson was just on ESPN Radio repeating many of the things he first said earlier in the week on NFL Countdown. However, he did add a few things, and best...he made clearer some of his earlier comments. Amongst them...

In the earlier broadside Mort claimed that his insider was "someone within the organization that I trust". That person was identified today as "a person very prominent within the organization".

Mort also cleared up the question of whether the Bengals decision to discipline Chad had already been made. It hasn't. He claimed the Bengals are still evaluating how to muzzle Chad without breaking his spirit. And complicating matters even more than the fear that Chad will quit on the team if disciplined are rumblings Chad and his agent, Drew Rosenhaus(sp?), have made in regards to wanting to renegotiate his contract this offseason. Mort said..."They know it's coming...it's already started, and they have to determine how strongly they want to commit to a player that's difficult to control."

The Bengals are dealing with TJ's feelings that he's not only a true #1 WR, but outproducing his much more well paid partner, Chad.

Finally, the Bengals fear that Carson Palmer's play is suffering due to the weight of him having to manage so many selfish players on offense.

[COB]

rumblings Chad and his agent, Drew Rosenhaus(sp?), have made in regards to wanting to renegotiate his contract this offseason. Mort said..."They know it's coming...it's already started, and they have to determine how strongly they want to commit to a player that's difficult to control."

I guess I didn't realize Drew Rosenhaus was Chad's agent. They better think about lining up a trade as soon as possible after this season.

Remember the last time Rosenhaus wanted to renegotiate a high-priced wideouts contract? TO in Philly. Held him out several games, ripped the Eagles apart, wrecked what was left of Owens' reputation, and finally held a press conference in TO's yard where a once proud player was reduced to tears and begged to be allowed back on the team. Yes, Drew Rosenhaus is quite an agent.

If Rosenhaus thought it was tough getting more money out of Jeff Lurie, wait until he tries Mike Brown on for size. We should get what we can for him after this season, otherwise we're going to get little or nothing.

And if you think Chad won't do Cincy the way TO did Philly, wake up. Chad has the maturity level of about a 5th grader. Rosenhaus will easily manipulate him. I see visions of Chad doing situps in his driveway while helicopters hover overhead.

[BengalByTheBay]

rumblings Chad and his agent, Drew Rosenhaus(sp?), have made in regards to wanting to renegotiate his contract this offseason. Mort said..."They know it's coming...it's already started, and they have to determine how strongly they want to commit to a player that's difficult to control."

I guess I didn't realize Drew Rosenhaus was Chad's agent. They better think about lining up a trade as soon as possible after this season.

Remember the last time Rosenhaus wanted to renegotiate a high-priced wideouts contract? TO in Philly. Held him out several games, ripped the Eagles apart, wrecked what was left of Owens' reputation, and finally held a press conference in TO's yard where a once proud player was reduced to tears and begged to be allowed back on the team. Yes, Drew Rosenhaus is quite an agent.

If Rosenhaus thought it was tough getting more money out of Jeff Lurie, wait until he tries Mike Brown on for size. We should get what we can for him after this season, otherwise we're going to get little or nothing.

And if you think Chad won't do Cincy the way TO did Philly, wake up. Chad has the maturity level of about a 5th grader. Rosenhaus will easily manipulate him. I see visions of Chad doing situps in his driveway while helicopters hover overhead.

Drew Rosenhaus was already CJ's agent at that time and has been for at least a year. I'm not saying Chad isn't immature, but I don't see the lessons of the TO saga being lost on him. Rosenhaus has kept his profile pretty low since then. In any event, good luck predicting what CJ is going to do based on that interview. He basically contradicted himself a number of times and said a lot of not much. Oh and, if either side was really that motivated, why would they wait until after the trade deadline to start making noise anyway?

[HairOnFire]

Oh and, if either side was really that motivated, why would they wait until after the trade deadline to start making noise anyway?

Due to salary cap considerations any realistic trade scenario can't be considered until this offseason, and it's only possible then if the Bengals are willing to absorb a fairly substantial but still managable hit. In fact, Marvin just downplayed the idea of a trade by implying the cap hit made it impossible. In my opinion that simply isn't true, but I agree it's not the type of move that any team would want to make if avoidable.

What Mort left unsaid, but implied, is the competition between Chad and TJ goes beyond friendly, and is rooted in feelings that both are underpaid, both are looking for new contracts, and as a result both need cold hard numbers that can be used at the bargaining table.

[BengalByTheBay]

What Mort left unsaid, but implied, is the competition between Chad and TJ goes beyond friendly, and is rooted in feelings that both are underpaid, both are looking for new contracts, and as a result both need cold hard numbers that can be used at the bargaining table.

I wouldn't disagree with that. In fact, I find it kinda predictable. In its simplist form, it seems to me that salary expansion dictates that no contract is really good for more than a couple of years if the player is performing even relatively well. If a player is say, close to leading the league in yards (CJ) or catches (TJ) or TD's (TJ) there is going to be speculation that the player is going to want a new deal. What has me confused is how quickly CJ got to the trade rumor stage. I can only attribute that to the losing record at this point. I suppose that no team really considers any player untradeable (possible exception for the Bengals Palmer) and would usually be willing to at least hear offers. But, I just don't see how this "Chad's a disruption" situation, which we have seen before, is any different except that the team isn't winning. So, is there really something to it or is it just a matter of having a microphone jabbed in Chad's face more often when he's in a bad mood? Time will, of course, tell. Stringing together a few wins would probably turn the story back toward the familiar line that "Chad's just having a good time and his selfishness helps the team".

[HoosierCat]

[but, I just don't see how this "Chad's a disruption" situation, which we have seen before, is any different except that the team isn't winning.

Well, that would be because it isn't. Win and all the "disruption" and trade chatter goes away. It's simply the nature of the beast.

As for the contract issue...well, it's long been rumored that TJ is unhappy with his paycheck. And I'm sure Rosensucmbag spends time each day whispering into Chad's ear. Again, it's the nature of the beast.

If the Bengals work out a deal to move Chad (or TJ) next offseason, I would bet it's more about not giving big bucks to a 30-something receiver than it is about any disruption issues. My guess is that they will pay one (if I had to bet I'd say Chad) and trade the other, then look at wideout in April in, oh, about round 2.

[skyline]

I'd be curious to see what happens to TJ if he were to be separated from Chad. He's a great wide receiver, no doubt, but double teams on Johnson don't exactly hurt.

[mgi]

I'd be curious to see what happens to TJ if he were to be separated from Chad. He's a great wide receiver, no doubt, but double teams on Johnson don't exactly hurt.

Well, if he gets seperated from Chad, let's hope he doesn't get seperated from Chris Henry.

If it is between 85 and 84, I keep 84.

[COB]

Drew Rosenhaus was already CJ's agent at that time and has been for at least a year.

Ok, thanks Bay. I didn't know that. When I first read that Rosenhaus had his hooks in Chad I about hyperventilated myself into a panic attack. I do suspect Rosenhaus will want the Bengals to trade Chad to a team that A. is in a larger market, and B. has a completely stupid owner. Washington and Oakland come to mind.

I would like to stop posting all these critical things about Chad. Unfortunately, I cannot, and will not, change.

[bigdaddybengal]

Chad spoke his mind, and I agree with everything he said.

[HairOnFire]

[but, I just don't see how this "Chad's a disruption" situation, which we have seen before, is any different except that the team isn't winning.

Well, that would be because it isn't. Win and all the "disruption" and trade chatter goes away. It's simply the nature of the beast.

I've got to disagree. Sort of.

I think there's definately been a change in how Chad's antics are being viewed, and the change in perception was in the making long before the Bengals fortunes shifted. No longer are his actions seen as harmless goofy "Chad being Chad" fun. Now we're hearing talk of bad chemistry, immaturity, blowups behind the scenes, an inability to control, an inability to disciple, and fear of quitting.

Worse, I've lost track of the number of observers, like Ron Jaworski said earlier in the week, who claim that if you're around the Bengals for any length of time you'll come to the conclusion that the team doesn't act like a team, especially on offense. Mort actually echoed Jaworski's claims, and after talking to ex-QB Rich Gannon offered his own rant about Palmer's play suffering due to constant demands that he manage egos. Apparently Gannon, one of the announcers for the Bengal/Chief game, compared the selfish demands of Bengal wideouts to things he witnessed while playing for a disfunctional Raider team, and said you didn't need to look any further for explanations of why the Bengals weren't playing up to their talent level and why a perceived team strength was largely ineffective despite boasting outstanding stats.

In short, I think it's only natural that the criticism grows louder when the team fails to win, but that doesn't mean the criticism is misplaced.

[BengalByTheBay]

[but, I just don't see how this "Chad's a disruption" situation, which we have seen before, is any different except that the team isn't winning.

Well, that would be because it isn't. Win and all the "disruption" and trade chatter goes away. It's simply the nature of the beast.

I've got to disagree. Sort of.

I think there's definately been a change in how Chad's antics are being viewed, and the change in perception was in the making long before the Bengals fortunes shifted. No longer are his actions seen as harmless goofy "Chad being Chad" fun. Now we're hearing talk of bad chemistry, immaturity, blowups behind the scenes, an inability to control, an inability to disciple, and fear of quitting.

Worse, I've lost track of the number of observers, like Ron Jaworski said earlier in the week, who claim that if you're around the Bengals for any length of time you'll come to the conclusion that the team doesn't act like a team, especially on offense. Mort actually echoed Jaworski's claims, and after talking to ex-QB Rich Gannon offered his own rant about Palmer's play suffering due to constant demands that he manage egos. Apparently Gannon, one of the announcers for the Bengal/Chief game, compared the selfish demands of Bengal wideouts to things he witnessed while playing for a disfunctional Raider team, and said you didn't need to look any further for explanations of why the Bengals weren't playing up to their talent level and why a perceived team strength was largely ineffective despite boasting outstanding stats.

In short, I think it's only natural that the criticism grows louder when the team fails to win, but that doesn't mean the criticism is misplaced.

Fair enough, but there was definitely a different take on Chad's act before the Palmer/Lewis era. I specifically recall a game where the Bengals were winning but the camera caught Chad yelling and complaining on the sideline and we were treated to a ten minute rant by the call team about what an immature and horrible guy Chad was. Enter a few non-losing seasons, including one taking us to the playoffs, and CJ (up until about 2 games ago) is a fun loving guy and super teammate who sleeps on the couch in PBS. I'm just saying that CJ screaming at somebody when the team loses is a big story and its a non-story otherwise.

[HairOnFire]

I specifically recall a game where the Bengals were winning but the camera caught Chad yelling and complaining on the sideline and we were treated to a ten minute rant by the call team about what an immature and horrible guy Chad was. Enter a few non-losing seasons, including one taking us to the playoffs, and CJ (up until about 2 games ago) is a fun loving guy and super teammate who sleeps on the couch in PBS.

Chad blowing up at Kitna near the end of a victory over the Ravens would be long forgotten by now if he'd learned from the mistake and matured. That doesn't seem to be the case. And sleeping on the couch at PBS is a great story detailing how hard he works at his craft, but when it comes to matters of immaturity and sideline blowups it doesn't count for much.

My take? Yeah, he's passionate and wants to be the best.....but so are plenty of other players who manage to keep their emotions in check.

[BengalByTheBay]

Chad blowing up at Kitna near the end of a victory over the Ravens would be long forgotten by now if he'd learned from the mistake and matured. That doesn't seem to be the case. And sleeping on the couch at PBS is a great story detailing how hard he works at his craft, but when it comes to matters of immaturity and sideline blowups it doesn't count for much.

My take? Yeah, he's passionate and wants to be the best.....but so are plenty of other players who manage to keep their emotions in check.

That's just my point though -- it actually was long forgotten. Probably still is. It was forgotten because the Bengals went 8-8 and then 11-5, ie, they won. If the Bengals went 5-11 the next season, then that scene would be shown over and over again, just like the MNF blow-up is on heavy rotation right now. Chad has actually matured a lot in a lot of ways. In fact, I believe he came to the NFL relatively mature in many ways that a lot of other players aren't -- he sure learned how to put his free time to work a lot better than most of these knuckleheads. I don't think that Chad is ever going to "mature" to the point that he doesn't make these scenes during games. Plenty of players get upset and yell at each other on the sidelines, it's just a better story when it's Chad Johnson. You (and the sports media generally) seem to think that indicates some deep level of rot within the team. I doubt I can convince you otherwise and, since neither one of us has the pulse of the Bengals from the West coast, I don't really know that you're completely wrong. It is, however, completely in-character for CJ and I will continue to believe that there are far bigger fish to fry for the Bengals to turn this season around than whether Chad and Carson are yelling at each other after a play in which CJ very obviously broke off his route. Chad was obviously wrong, couldn't admit it at the time, and now can. Nothing more to see here.

Now, go out and fix a few things on offense and just about everything on defense and beat the crap out of the Squeelers and I'm guessing that this "story" goes away for a while.