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mgilgris

Patriots Videotaping "cheating" incident

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F*ck the Patriots, F*ck Billichek, and F*ck Goodell !!!

This is complete bullsh*t plain and simple. 250,000 against the team ?? Oh yeah, that will show them. That's a drop in the bucket, pocket change for these guys.

I love saying this as an autoracing fan, but they know how to bring down punishment with a HUGE $100,000,000 HAMMER (That's correct people. A one hundred million dollar fine!) to end such s**tty cheating! Read all about how integrity of a sport SHOULD be dealt with!

McLaren fined $100 million in Formula One spying scandal

By Brad Spurgeon Published: September 13, 2007

SPA-FRANCORCHAMPS, Belgium: McLaren Mercedes, the leading team in the Formula One championship, was fined $100 million Thursday and excluded from the constructors' title in the spying scandal that has plagued the sport all season.

The International Automobile Federation, the sport's governing body, found the team guilty of cheating by using data obtained from Ferrari, its main rival, to improve its own car, the federation said in a statement issued after a hearing in Paris.

The team may continue to race, however, and its two drivers - Lewis Hamilton and Fernando Alonso - who lead the series, will be allowed to keep their points and will be eligible for the drivers' title.

It was the biggest punishment given to a team in the 57-year history of the sport.

The federation, known as FIA, said it had "stripped Vodafone McLaren Mercedes of all constructors' points in the 2007 FIA Formula One World Championship, and the team can score no points for the remainder of the season." The FIA added that the team would not share in the sport's income this season, either.

It was the first time in the sport's history that the leading team in the championship had been excluded. Should another team fail by the end of the season to score more points than McLaren has now, then there will be no constructors' title winner in 2007.

However, as the teams gathered in Spa for the Belgian Grand Prix this weekend, McLaren led the series, and Ferrari, by only 23 points. A team may obtain a maximum of 18 points for taking both first and second place in a race, so with four races left - including the one in Belgium - Ferrari is almost certain to earn enough points for the title.

Ferrari issued a statement Friday saying that it was "satisfied that the truth has now emerged."

For its part, McLaren continued to claim that it had gained no competitive advantage from the Ferrari data.

Ron Dennis, the director and part owner of McLaren, said, "Having been at the hearing today, I do not accept that we deserved to be penalized in this way."

He said the engineering team of more than 140 people had testified that "they had never received or used the Ferrari information."

The spying scandal broke in early July, when Ferrari accused McLaren of using data given by a Ferrari employee to a McLaren employee to improve the quality of its racing car. The police had found documents about the Ferrari car in the home in England of Mike Coughlan, McLaren's technical director.

Ferrari said it thought its former employee, Nigel Stepney, who had been frustrated by organizational changes at Ferrari this season, had provided the information to Coughlan.

At a previous hearing, on July 26, the FIA found McLaren guilty of possessing the data, but it did not punish the team, because it could not prove that the team had used the information to improve the car.

The FIA said, however, that if new evidence appeared to show that the data had been used "to the detriment of the championship," then McLaren could be thrown out of the series this season and also in 2008. The FIA said Thursday that it would publish the full reasons behind its decision Friday.

On July 31, the FIA announced that the case would go to an appeal court on Sept. 13, after a request by the Italian motor sport federation. Then it announced that new evidence had been found, so the appeal had been dropped, but that the World Motor Sport Council had been convened for a new hearing on the same day.

The FIA asked the drivers of the McLaren team - Hamilton, Alonso and the test driver, Pedro de la Rosa - to provide any information they had on the case in exchange for immunity from punishment. The FIA said that it was due to "the exceptional circumstances in which the FIA gave the team's drivers immunity in return for providing evidence" that there was no penalty against them in the drivers' standings.

The FIA also said that for 2008, "it would receive a full technical report on the 2008 McLaren car and will make a decision at its December 2007 meeting as to what sanction, if any, will be imposed on the team for the 2008 season."

Although Ferrari initiated a separate criminal investigation in Italy, the FIA began its own investigation to determine whether McLaren had broken an article in the International Sporting Code that deals with competitors who bring the sport into disrepute.

There have been other constructors' penalties over the years. The Tyrrell team was removed in 1984 for various technical infringements, but the team was not a leading team. The Benetton team was suspended from two races in 1994 after its driver, Michael Schumacher, ignored a black flag requiring him to quit a race. In 2005, the BAR Honda team was disqualified from one race and banned from two others for using an illegal fuel tank.

Although the decision Thursday destroyed efforts of McLaren to win its ninth constructors' title, it saved the biggest story of the season: the battle between the McLaren drivers. Hamilton has led most of the season in his rookie year, and Alonso, reigning double world champion, has tried to catch up.

The McLaren team was founded by Bruce McLaren, a driver who died in a racing accident in 1970. It won its first team and drivers' title in 1974 and has won seven more since then, but none since 1998. It also won its first drivers' title in 1974 and has won 10 more since then, the last in 1999.

But since 1980, the team has been operated in Dennis's image. He began as a mechanic in Formula One in 1966 and rose through the ranks to become one of the most successful team owners and directors in the sport. He appears on the list of Britain's richest, having amassed a fortune of hundreds of millions of dollars.

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Yeah, that Mclaren thing was on sportscenter as I was writing my last post. Hammered!

:rolleyes: We're watching the same damn show Hoosier! :sure:

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that s**t was weak sauce.

ROFL at fining ONE coach 500,000 and the organization 250,000.

Was that the most they could penalize the franchise?

gimme a break.

wow commish, way to go there.

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I think Belichick should have been suspended. The penalty Goodell chose for the Patriots is adequate though, IMO. I really don't care how much money he fined them, but taking away a first round pick is more than I expected and more than enough to satisfy me.

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I think Belichick should have been suspended. The penalty Goodell chose for the Patriots is adequate though, IMO. I really don't care how much money he fined them, but taking away a first round pick is more than I expected and more than enough to satisfy me.

The fans in Philly might beg to differ, as do I. I'd like to add watching the VIDEO at the aforementioned link by Cris Carter definitely hits the nail on the head. "If it wasn't a HUGE advantage, why would they even be doing it in the first place considering Mangini came from the Patriots own organiztion! What they said rings true. Belicheat is arrogant beyond comparison.

**Edit** Not beyond Barry Bonds arrogant, but they're neck and neck at the finish line!

Eagles try and recall anything fishy about Super Bowl loss to Patriots

By DAN GELSTON, AP Sports Writer

September 13, 2007

PHILADELPHIA (AP) -- Sheldon Brown and the Eagles hoped a blitz would rattle Tom Brady.

One problem: Every time the Eagles rushed Brady in the Super Bowl, the Patriots nullified the defensive attack with screen passes. Lots of them. On almost every play defensive coordinator Jim Johnson called for a blitz, the Patriots used the short pass to confuse the Eagles.

After the Patriots beat the Eagles 24-21 in 2005 to win the Lombardi Trophy, Brown thought the Patriots beat them with nothing but sharp offensive playcalling. Now, he's not so sure.

With spying accusations leveled this week against the Patriots, some of the Eagles left from the NFC title team are wondering if New England used bootleg film to their advantage in the Super Bowl.

"Do I think about it? Mmm hmmm," said Brown, their starting cornerback. "It's crazy. I just don't know how far back it goes. Something's not right about that."

Pro Bowl safety Brian Dawkins found the accusations troublesome.

"Now there's always going to be questions about the situation," Dawkins said Thursday. "Was it great adjustments at halftime or what?"

Pittsburgh wide receiver Hines Ward said this week that he suspected the Patriots had some type of inside information on the Steelers before at least one of the teams' two AFC championship game matchups since the 2001 season. While Ward said the Patriots knew a lot of Pittsburgh's calls, none of the Eagles could offer any type of solid proof of any shenanigans.

"For me to think back two years ago about something they may or may not have done, it's not worth my time," running back Brian Westbrook said.

New England beat the New York Jets in last Sunday's season opener in which an on-field video camera focusing on Jets coaches was confiscated from a Patriots employee.

On Thursday, New England coach Bill Belichick was fined the NFL maximum of $500,000 and the Patriots were ordered to pay $250,000 for spying on an opponent's defensive signals. NFL commissioner Roger Goodell also ordered the team to give up next year's first-round draft choice if it reaches the playoffs and second- and third-round picks if it doesn't.

"I would like to think it's just one team doing it, but it doesn't shock me that it happened," Dawkins said.

Some Eagles said occasional signal-stealing is an accepted part of the game. But they believe what the Patriots are accused of doing crosses the football morality line because it threatens the integrity of the game.

"It's different if you're talking about recording it," Dawkins said. "What can you do if you try to signal a play in?"

Eagles coach Andy Reid steered away from questions about the alleged cheating other than to say he has no doubts New England's victory was legitimate.

"That's something Bill and the Patriots are working through," Reid said.

Brown said he noticed a difference in New England's playcalling in the second quarter. After the Patriots gained only 45 yards in the first quarter, they had 286 over the next three.

Brady hit running back Corey Dillon and gained 29 total yards on a pair of screens to open New England's first full drive of the second quarter. They didn't score on that drive, but did on four of the next five drives.

The Patriots went to the screen pass again on the decisive drive early in the fourth quarter, this time with Brady connecting with Kevin Faulk on two passes for 27 yards.

"I was like, 'Man, I never saw that many screens," Brown said.

Brown wonders if it was normal playcalling from a team good enough to win three Super Bowls in four seasons, a Patriots team that used a strong scouting report to gain a fair edge, or was somebody picking up the Eagles defensive calls from a sideline camera that deprived them of a fair shot?

"I think they should forfeit, man," said punt returner Reno Mahe, smiling. "We won the Super Bowl. I think we should get it. I'm going to go trade my NFC championship ring for a Super Bowl ring."

The headline over a picture of Belichick on the back page of Thursday's Philadelphia Daily News might have said it all: "Counterfeit RING: Spy Scandal Helps Explain Birds' Super Bowl Loss."

Hey, maybe the illicit tape would show once and for all if Donovan McNabb really did get sick in the huddle late in the game. Remember, that was Philadelphia's first excuse for losing.

McNabb -- who insisted the Eagles would never stoop to those kind of tactics -- was surprised to hear the allegations against the Patriots. But he said the suspicions might be overblown.

"One thing people are forgetting is that even if you have the answers to the test, you still have to take the test," he said. "If they have an idea of what's coming, those guys still have to be able to execute the play."

That doesn't mean McNabb won't clear some space in his jewelry box. For a city that last saw a pro team win a championship nearly 25 years ago, the Eagles might accept a retroactive one.

"Maybe we'll get our ring back," said a chuckling McNabb. "Maybe we'll get the real one."

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Whether the Patriots cheated in any of the Superbowls, AFC Championships, or whatever is complete speculation. It's unfair to expect Goodell's punishment to reflect on that speculation, and I'm glad it didn't. All he can do is punish them for what he knows occured (regardless of suspicions he and others may have had about them previously). They cheated against the Jets in their season opener this season.

For that one incident, a first round pick is enough to make me move foward without a peep.

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250,000 and a First? thats bull crap.

God'dell will ruin a players life who made a few mistake like odell but won't hand out vs belicheat and the patriots...

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Whether the Patriots cheated in any of the Superbowls, AFC Championships, or whatever is complete speculation. It's unfair to expect Goodell's punishment to reflect on that speculation, and I'm glad it didn't. All he can do is punish them for what he knows occured (regardless of suspicions he and others may have had about them previously). They cheated against the Jets in their season opener this season.

For that one incident, a first round pick is enough to make me move foward without a peep.

One incident? They were caught twice! And God knows how many other times it occured that they weren't caught. My money is on this is just the tip of an iceberg much, much larger than what sunk the Titanic, or Barry Bonds head. I'm not quite sure which is bigger.

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That was a pretty damn quick decision by Goodell. I thought he would mill over this for a few weeks before making a decision. I would've thought a years suspension from the NFL would've been adequate for the coach. Then he can apply for re-instatement one year from the date of the incident.

Whatever...

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Pure BS is definitely the right call for simple reason...Odell Thurman. The way the commish handled Odell's case made it so that if anyone else ran afoul of the rules of they should receive a similar type of punishment, right. Odell's offense didn't jeopardize the integrity of the game and he didn't give himself or a team a unfair competitive advantage, but he still got one of the harshest penalties ever given to a player by the NFL. Guys who have been involved in murders, assualts, rape, etc..have gotten lesser punishments than Odell received, but hey it is what it is.

Now you have a SuperBowl winning coach who is considered a NFL "genius", who gets caught cheating red handed even after the NFL has specifically told them not to do so. Belicheck arrogantly broke the rules that the NFL has stated as the guidelines to fair play, even though he is the coach of what many believe to be one of the most talented teams currently in the NFL today. Goodell gave Belicheck and the Pats a slap on the wrist, no suspension, no forfeiture of games, just a monetary fine and loss of a first day draft pick. Considering how the Pats have money to spend and FA who will take a pay cut to play in NE the loss of a draft pick shouldn't be too hard to overcome.

I guess in the commissioner's eyes getting a dui is more serious than manipulating the outcome of games, he's putting personal conduct of players over the integrity of the game. That is a huge mistake and sends the wrong message to the owners and players of the NFL. I know his job is not an easy one and every decision he makes can be second guessed, but imo he's coming off like a major league hypocrite.

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Looks like the Lions also had an incident last season that they are now coming forward about......

http://detroitlions.contentquake.com/2007/...-by-new-england

During the 2006 NFL Season the Lions traveled to Foxboro to take on the Patriots in a regular season game. The Pats prevailed over the Lions 28-21 in a surprisingly close game. Paul Zimmerman in his Dr. Z Inside the NFL column for Sports Illustrated reported that Lions Coach Rod Marinelli phoned the Lions coaches in the press box during the game and asked:

“There’s a camera pointed right at our defensive coach making his calls. Is that allowed?”

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being that god'ell and kraft are friends did you really think they would get a severe punishment? this is just another step in the right direction for god'ell to hang himself. give it time people this jackass will be gone before to long.

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It is amazing to read some of the spin-doctoring going on in NE right now. Here are a couple of threads from KFFL.com which seems to be a NE-area site. Many of the die-hard NE fans believed that the Jets and Mangini are back-stabbing snitches or that the act is not as severe or advantageous as everyone else seems to think. And I thought people were over the edge with some of the Odell and Henry stuff. Wow.

http://www.kffl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212436

http://www.kffl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212459

http://www.kffl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212464

http://www.kffl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212500

http://www.kffl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=212389

Another thing to ponder about the punishment is that I think NE has 2 first round picks in the 2008 draft. Knowing that, does this punishment really hurt then that much?

And lastly has anyone seen the "Shady Brady Bill Belicheat" video on YouTube? It is hysterical. I think it another Ryan Parker thing.

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Whether the Patriots cheated in any of the Superbowls, AFC Championships, or whatever is complete speculation. It's unfair to expect Goodell's punishment to reflect on that speculation, and I'm glad it didn't.

I agree. The court of public opinion will punish Belichick for things we all suspect but can't prove, and I'm satisfied with that. However, Goodell could have, and most definately should have, included a suspension to the fines and loss of draft pick. Because as detailed in the John Clayton article, the punishment Goodell chose sounds harsh and severe on the surface, but in reality is very easily dealt and will have no lasting impact whatsover. Worse, by deciding not to suspend Belichick the commish has set a precedent that states flatly that blatant cheating, proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, isn't enough to result in a coach being suspended for ANY length of time. Not even a single game.

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I know most around here probably hate soccer but last year there was a big game-fixing scandal in Italy. As a punishment the governing body in Italy relegated (demoted) one of the teams (Juventus) to the second division of the league. That would be akin to sending the Yankees to Triple A for one season as a punishment. They also assessed a point deficit to several other teams which meant they started off in a hole at the beginning which affected their place in the standings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006_Serie_A_scandal

It's too bad they can't do something like that. Maybe drop the Pats down to the Arena League or make them play in Europe for a season.

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Another thing to ponder about the punishment is that I think NE has 2 first round picks in the 2008 draft. Knowing that, does this punishment really hurt then that much?

The loss of a single draft pick, even a 1st round pick, is easily compensated for by making one additional move in free agency. In fact, the loss of the pick frees up all or most of the salary cap space needed to finance the addition in free agency. In other words it's a push. A far better punishment would have been the loss of all first day draft picks OR the loss of their entire draft OR the loss of multiple picks this season and next year as well, including 1st rounders.

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Another thing to ponder about the punishment is that I think NE has 2 first round picks in the 2008 draft. Knowing that, does this punishment really hurt then that much?

The loss of a single draft pick, even a 1st round pick, is easily compensated for by making one additional move in free agency. In fact, the loss of the pick frees up all or most of the salary cap space needed to finance the addition in free agency. In other words it's a push. A far better punishment would have been the loss of all first day draft picks OR the loss of their entire draft OR the loss of multiple picks this season and next year as well, including 1st rounders.

Agreed. Or better yet, make them hire Mike Ditka as a draft day consultant and trade all of their picks to the Colts or the Jets so they can draft one guy.

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