Portis: Vick fighting dogs not that big of deal

[The PatternMaster]

Indonesia: Cockfighting, an existing culture

Amidst daily struggle for survival, refugees find it hard to preserve their culture, but some forms of art and sports still exist in the camps.

Porto Ximenes prides himself in having three big roosters, which he cares for - much more than his own children.

The roosters are kept for cockfighting, betting and gambling. Most of his pension, as a former militia fighting for Indonesia in East Timor, is spent on cockfightng gambling.

Quick someone get Interpol on the phone, these dangerous criminals must be stopped at once.

[The PatternMaster]

Florio over at PFT has been doing a pretty good job staying on top of developments; he even created a seperate page devoted solely to posts on the Vick case:

http://www.profootballtalk.com/VickInvestigation.htm

I tend to agree with his two main contentions, that, one, the Surrey County prosecutor, a part-time guy, was never interested in trying to charge Vick, who has enough money to buy half the lawyers in America to defend him; and two, the Feds are getting involved because of the Vick celebrity factor.

Maybe because he didn't have any evidence and the only witnesses he had were jailhouse snitches who would lie on their own mother to get their convicted ass out of prison.

The prosecutor said he would go after Vick if he had the evidence to do so, he didn't have any evidence that proved Vick was involved without a doubt, so he didn't indict him. If through the course of investigation he found damning evidence then he would have gone forward with the charges. He also didn't want to be over zealous so that if there was a case it would get throw out on a techinicality and a guilty party goes free, that happens way too often.

Why the FBI is now involved I don't know, but they've got Vick in their sights and he better not even spit on the sidewalk in the next few months; talk about a crazy offseason. It has to be damn near impossible for Vick focusing on learning Petrino's offense with all of this swirling around him right now.

[DesperateDerelict]

So, are the feds allowed to take over the case due to perceived foot-dragging by the local-yokels? Is that within their purview? Has post 9-11 given them carte-blanche?

Will this speed up the case, or insure that Vick is safe until 2010? Remember, this is the same agency that ran a 4 year sting on the Teflon Don, John Gotti.

If the allegations are true, I wouldn't mind seeing Vick brought down hard, but not at the expense of civil liberties. As I've said before: I woke up today 20 miles from Fountain Square, not Tiammen Square.

[HoosierCat]

Maybe because he didn't have any evidence and the only witnesses he had were jailhouse snitches who would lie on their own mother to get their convicted ass out of prison.

Maybe. Given what's come out in the media on the case, tho, that seems very unlikely.

The prosecutor said he would go after Vick if he had the evidence to do so

Yeah, and we all know how county prosecutors are never full of crap, right?

Why the FBI is now involved I don't know

Because they can, because busting Vick would be a feather in their cap, because they can do so without compromising the hunt for two-bit domestic terrorists who couldn't blow their noses, much less blow up a plane or building...in short, lots of reasons. Vick has to watch his step? Hell, that was true long before the dogfighting business.

Edited to add: One final point that occurs to me is that the entry of the Feds into this case may be the best thing that could happen. If Pointdexter had just let the case fade away (as it seems he was doing), Vick would always be under a cloud. There would always be people who think the guy supressed evidence, or just didn't try real hard, for any number of reasons. But with the feds on the case now, either one of two things will happen: they'll find enough evidence to charge Vick with something -- or they won't, and Vick comes out of this with his rep scrubbed clean courtesy of the FBI. So, as long as Mike is innocent, he's in good shape.

[redsbengalsbucks]

I believe the Feds are involved because dogfighting is a gambling event. Gambling is racketeering and racketeering is a federal offense.

I guess for some of you it is ok for a celebrity to break the law and not be punished or at least investigated thouroughly. What does it hurt to have the feds actually look into this case? Do you also believe that Jamal Lewis got a raw deal when the feds investigated him for trafficking coke?

If a federal law was broken someone should go to jail, it does not matter if he is a star athlete or not.

[DesperateDerelict]

RBB - Thanks. Shows you what too much TV will do - I thought racketeering was conspiracy, usually reserved for criminal groups (mafia-types, crips & bloods, Republicans).

[COB]

Indonesia: Cockfighting, an existing culture

Amidst daily struggle for survival, refugees find it hard to preserve their culture, but some forms of art and sports still exist in the camps.

Porto Ximenes prides himself in having three big roosters, which he cares for - much more than his own children.

The roosters are kept for cockfighting, betting and gambling. Most of his pension, as a former militia fighting for Indonesia in East Timor, is spent on cockfightng gambling.

Quick someone get Interpol on the phone, these dangerous criminals must be stopped at once.

"Hold everything! I was going to let that rooster on the left fight that other rooster. But instead I've decided to give it to a very special lady in my life. Hope ya'll understand" - Chad Johnson.

[HoosierCat]

ESPN radio sez the Feds found 30+ dog carcasses on the property...and apparently Pointdexter has changed his tune (again) and sez his office's investigation is still going on "in parallel" with the feds'...

[MacD BengalFan]

I love a good dog as much as the next guy, but this entire debate seems inconsistent.

Why is it anymore disgusting to hold a dog fight than to kill a bull in front of thousands of raving spectators?

Why is a dog's life so much more important to the world than the life of a cockroach or a termite living under a floorboard?

I don't view the animal's general intelligence as relevant when judging whether an act is cruel or not. It seems like people take offense when common American pets get killed for game or for sport but not when other animals of just about any variety die in the same manner.

It's all relative, and despite the grimace that forms on my face when I think of a dog fight, my opinion of the people responsible really doesn't change much.

Let me try and answer a couple of these questions as well.

Bull fighting is not acceptable in America. It is a countries culture. You will not see a bull fight in America as it is not accepted by the American public like it is in Spain and Mexico. I have been to a bull fight in Spain and yes, it is brutal. Unlike dog fighting where the dog is maimed, healed and then sent back into the ring, the matadors fight the bull until its death. After the fight is over, the remains are sent to charities. Suffering for the bull is minimized unlike the pitbull who continues to suffer while healing.

It is not about the animals general perception of its intelligence. It is what is accepted by the countries culture. I hate to say it, dogs are an acceptable meal in Korea. And that disgusts me. But you will never one on a plate here in America or me trying a bite. Why, because it not culturally acceptable, and quite frankly, disgusting.

It may sound hypocritical, but that is the reality of life. What is acceptable in one part of this great planet we live in, may not be acceptable in another.

[ckj414]

I believe the Feds are involved because dogfighting is a gambling event. Gambling is racketeering and racketeering is a federal offense.

I guess for some of you it is ok for a celebrity to break the law and not be punished or at least investigated thouroughly. What does it hurt to have the feds actually look into this case? Do you also believe that Jamal Lewis got a raw deal when the feds investigated him for trafficking coke?

If a federal law was broken someone should go to jail, it does not matter if he is a star athlete or not.

...and we have a winner!

This wasn't just a basement operation; although the feds wisely haven't talked much about it, I think the real reason they're involved is exactly what you're getting at - essentially, Michael Vick, organized crime guru. Well, maybe not 'guru'; after all, the 'tard got caught. First dog fighting, then racketeering and money laundering, and then who knows where else it leads from there. Because frankly, from the evidence that's been leaked, I'd be shocked if there wasn't enough to file charges already, at least against someone that didn't have the best lawyers and witnesses money can buy. I think the only reason its taken this long is the Feds are taking this slow and careful to see how deep this goes.

[derekshank]

It is not about the animals general perception of its intelligence. It is what is accepted by the countries culture. I hate to say it, dogs are an acceptable meal in Korea. And that disgusts me. But you will never one on a plate here in America or me trying a bite. Why, because it not culturally acceptable, and quite frankly, disgusting.

It may sound hypocritical, but that is the reality of life. What is acceptable in one part of this great planet we live in, may not be acceptable in another.

While what you say is true... it would not bother me to eat a dog. I don't particularly want to - but I wouldn't view it as a great injustice... no more than a burger at least. What I hate is the torture... and a side note - Americans who are violent toward animals are exponentially more likely to be violent toward other humans.

As far as the Feds getting involved. I'm fine with it. While some may argue that they have more important things to be doing... Congress also has more important things to be doing than looking for steroids in baseball. As Hooiser mentioned, it's about a feather in their cap. And if Vick is guilty of any of it, I don't care if the feds are "wasting" time. I'd like to see Vick and anyone else involved go down for this.

[HoosierCat]

Well, one reason the Feds got involved became apparent today: the Vick house was apparently ground zero for a multi-state dogfighting ring...

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AkpW...p&type=lgns

The lede:

SURRY, Va. (AP) -- A property owned by Atlanta Falcons quarterback Michael Vick was used as the "main staging area for housing and training the pit bulls involved" in an alleged dogfighting operation, according to court documents.

The papers, filed by federal authorities Monday in U.S. District Court in Richmond and obtained Friday by The Associated Press, contain the address of the Vick property that has been the center of the investigation. Vick is not named in the documents.

Friday, federal agents again searched the property. They finished their work at about 4:30 p.m. and declined to answer reporters' questions as they left.

According to the documents, dog fights have been sponsored by "Bad Newz Kennels" at the property since at least 2002. For the events, participants and dogs traveled from South Carolina, North Carolina, Maryland, New York, Texas and other states.

Members of the venture also knowingly transported, delivered and received dogs for animal fighting, the documents state.

[ArmyBengal]

Just for the record, while eating dog may sound disgusting and the thought of old yeller on your dinner plate may make you sick, it still tastes pretty good the way the Koreans make it... I just wanted to add that.

Oh yeah, screw Mike Vick !!!

WHODEY !!!

[The PatternMaster]

There is no evidence to convict of anything, he will not be indicted. The only chance the feds or anyone else has to convict Vick is if someone who was involved has evidence to prove that Vick was involved as well, which isn't likely to happen.

I'm sure Vick knew what was going on, but he was smart enough to make sure he was not connected in any way. I don't think he should be held accountable if they can't prove he did anything wrong.

[agreen_112]

There is no evidence to convict of anything, he will not be indicted. The only chance the feds or anyone else has to convict Vick is if someone who was involved has evidence to prove that Vick was involved as well, which isn't likely to happen.

I'm sure Vick knew what was going on, but he was smart enough to make sure he was not connected in any way. I don't think he should be held accountable if they can't prove he did anything wrong.

Your probably right, but I hope for Vick's sake that he can't be linked to the underworld of dog fighting with hard evidence. If so, his career will be finished. Your talking about Mans best friend here, NFL fans all around the world will hate this guy.

[The PatternMaster]

There is no evidence to convict of anything, he will not be indicted. The only chance the feds or anyone else has to convict Vick is if someone who was involved has evidence to prove that Vick was involved as well, which isn't likely to happen.

I'm sure Vick knew what was going on, but he was smart enough to make sure he was not connected in any way. I don't think he should be held accountable if they can't prove he did anything wrong.

Your probably right, but I hope for Vick's sake that he can't be linked to the underworld of dog fighting with hard evidence. If so, his career will be finished. Your talking about Mans best friend here, NFL fans all around the world will hate this guy.

With Vick it's been either you love him or you hate him, he's one of the most polarizing figures in the NFL. I think that the people who support him will continue to support him and those that would like to see him go away will just use this as justification as a reason to hate.