The PatternMaster Posted May 17, 2007 Report Share Posted May 17, 2007 Clearly Marvin doesn't seem to want him around; would you contest that? Marvin also has no choice about it for the time being. So 'stuck' is appropriate. Sure I can contest it. After all, I'm on record saying that there's no way I cut O'Neal even if he loses his starting job PRECISELY because his salary isn't so great that he couldn't be kept as a pure backup, and if that transpires he's talented enough to transform that position into a team strength. So even in the worst case scenario I'm not feeling stuck. Instead, I act in my own self interest and ignore Deltha's complaints because he's in no position to do anything about it. In fact, he needs to play well this season to have any hope of cashing in big. Simply put, due to the way salaries are negotiated in the NFL you're always going to have a mix of layers who are overpaid and underpaid at any given moment. So why would anyone suggest that the Bengals simply cut a player who was currently under contract for less than his veteran replacement would cost? That's a pretty good thing, right? And so much the better if you prepare for that underpaid players eventual departure by drafting a younger more capable replacement. Last, when it comes to giving raises I don't have a problem with the Bengals stance that O'Neal needed to show more after the 2005 season precisely because of his past history. And the only way anyone would consider it now is if they had just finished sniffin' glue.**wipes glue from nose***Hey what are you trying to say!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted May 17, 2007 Report Share Posted May 17, 2007 I don't know where you get any of that out of this piece. Negative? How so? Where to begin? Well, how about the beginning? Am I really the only one who read the title of the article..."Lewis stuck with O'Neal" and found it to be unfairly negative?Apparently, the answer to that is yes, so maybe that's an indication you're being a little too sensitive these days (PMS? ). In any event, it's likely Doc didn't even write the headline; in the newpaper biz that's traditionally the prerogative of the editor.The Bengals have a lot of money invested in Deltha? He says that where? "If a player has talent and you have money invested in him, the player is going to play. Even when he no-shows at a voluntary workout. Don’t think the player doesn’t know that." --- Doc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekshank Posted May 17, 2007 Report Share Posted May 17, 2007 I'm not in love with Daugherty, but the only time he gets slammed on this site is when he writes anything negative about the Bengals.Yeah... what's that about? Is this a Bengals forum or something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted May 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2007 In any event, it's likely Doc didn't even write the headline; in the newpaper biz that's traditionally the prerogative of the editor.I'm still looking for the words "a lot." What in that Doc excerpt isn't true?One example, and all you've demonstrated is a misquote. You seem more interested in engaging in semantics than discussing football at the big table. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted May 17, 2007 Report Share Posted May 17, 2007 You seem more interested in engaging in semantics than discussing football at the big table.The guy who hangs his negativity rant on the wording of the title accuses me of semantics. Ah, the irony...But, as to discussing football, precisely what football is being discussed here? That Deltha is going to get cut because he missed an OTA is a ludicrious proposition. Even that Marvin will cut him at any point before 2008 is extremely unlikely, based on Marvin's own record. He's never cut a vet starter in order to install a raw rook. Even when the vet starter is clearly playing poorly (as in the case of Tory James and Sam Adams) it isn't until their replacement gets a year under their belt that they go. And you and Daugherty and apparently everyone here including me all agree Deltha doesn't deserve a raise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregCook Posted May 17, 2007 Report Share Posted May 17, 2007 Given what he earns today and can earn later I would politely remind Deltha that if football doesn't work out, you could always find a real job like mine, toiling in the salt mines of software development. For about 1 tenth of what he makes today. But I'll bet he didn't graduate from College huh? His mother ought to be kicking his a$$ every day till he shows up with a smile'n attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted May 17, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 17, 2007 You seem more interested in engaging in semantics than discussing football at the big table.The guy who hangs his negativity rant on the wording of the title accuses me of semantics. Ah, the irony... At least I haven't hung my rant on the rather dubious claim that a professional sportswriter with many years of experience wasn't responsible for the title of his own article. Then again, it was a bland four-word title...no doubt stretching the limits of Daugherty's creative skills. As for whether the title seems negative or not, I'm fairly certain that saying a person is stuck with someone else is deliberately suggesting a complete lack of options. And that's not a good thing, right? Some might even describe the situation in negative terms. Typically, Daugherty argues both sides of the same argument by later acknowledging the options that Marvin has given himself by selecting Leon Hall. All things considered I'd say it was Deltha who was stuck without options. Which is sort of ironic, don't ya' think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC_Bengals_Fan Posted May 17, 2007 Report Share Posted May 17, 2007 Given what he earns today and can earn later I would politely remind Deltha that if football doesn't work out, you could always find a real job like mine, toiling in the salt mines of software development. For about 1 tenth of what he makes today. But I'll bet he didn't graduate from College huh? His mother ought to be kicking his a$$ every day till he shows up with a smile'n attitude.You make 1/10 what Deltha does as a software engineer?...You hiring? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregCook Posted May 18, 2007 Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 Given what he earns today and can earn later I would politely remind Deltha that if football doesn't work out, you could always find a real job like mine, toiling in the salt mines of software development. For about 1 tenth of what he makes today. But I'll bet he didn't graduate from College huh? His mother ought to be kicking his a$$ every day till he shows up with a smile'n attitude.You make 1/10 what Deltha does as a software engineer?...You hiring? Merely a rhetorical flourish. I could be making 1 20th, 30th since I don't know what he makes. Still it's alot more than me, and I all he has to do is run some, hit some...I have to work in an office. Make project plans. Beg for a travel junket. I like his job better. As a fact, we are hiring. I think we have about 30,000 employees here in the states, but we're only hiring in India. Want to work in Hyderabad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stripes Posted May 18, 2007 Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 I'm not in love with Daugherty, but the only time he gets slammed on this site is when he writes anything negative about the Bengals.Nevermind that his negativity usually involves juvenile whining about how the team is run or what they do in the offseason. In such articles, he sounds just like... you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted May 18, 2007 Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 I'm not really familiar with Daugherty's articles, so I'll leave that bickering to your guys. As for Deltha, he simply needs to show up and give a little effort towards this team. He has been selfish and has shown NO leadership abilities whatsoever. How about being here and setting a positive example to the rookies ?? How about showing a little selflessness and the desire to make the team better on the way to winning a Super Bowl ?? I could care less about what he did in '05. He did nothing last season to warrant him bitching for more money. I can't see the solution to the problem being, "throw more money at him"... Wrong answer !!! What could it hurt ?? Give the impression that whenever you bitch, you will get what you want. Great impression to give to the youngsters of the team when their contracts are due or even before.Deltha isn't going anywhere until the Bengals want him to go anywhere and that's just a fact. He signed the contract he has and the Bengals will make him live up to it or he won't play. I hope for the best for Deltha in regards to this team, but his attitude has gotten old very quick !!!WHODEY !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GapControl Posted May 18, 2007 Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 I grew tired of reading Paul Daughtery after he slammed Bob Huggins day in and day out for years. If Paul Daughtery had anywhere near the success Huggins, Lewis, Oneal, or Mike Brown have had, he wouldn`t write such negative pieces. ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet23 Posted May 18, 2007 Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 I'm not in love with Daugherty, but the only time he gets slammed on this site is when he writes anything negative about the Bengals.Nevermind that his negativity usually involves juvenile whining about how the team is run or what they do in the offseason. In such articles, he sounds just like... you. Juvenile......and you're such a big boy. Arguing that MB is terrible is sort of like arguing that hot water is hot, or sex is good. The entire free world knows this, except here in Pleasantville. My bad, everything is faaaaaantastic. It's just some kind of weird coincidence that the Bengals have had one of the worst runs in the history of sports under your man's leadership. Thanks to years of futility, the Bengals have a pretty solid core. It sure would be nice to land some quality free agents to get them over the hump. We probably offer them too much money and that's why they sign elsewhere. They are just overwhelmed with Mikey's generosity, and that probably scares them away. Why is Deltha unhappy? Because he wants to be paid. There's a shocker! You want a puppy? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CJBestInAFC Posted May 18, 2007 Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 Georgia CB Paul Oliver has been declared academicaly ineligible for the 2007 season, and plans to enter the supplemental draft. He is currently rated the #1 senior CB and #6 overall senior prospect. He shut down Calvin Johnson last year (2 catches for 13 yards). Especially given Deltha's attitude with the OTA's.6. Paul Oliver, CB, GeorgiaOliver is one of the most underrated prospects in the 2008 class right now. This 6-foot, 205-pound cornerback impressed me with his improved coverage skills during the second half of the 2006 season, including a tremendous effort versus former Georgia Tech star WR Calvin Johnson (Lions, No. 2 overall). Don't be surprised if Oliver emerges as a top-10 pick a year from now.Other than this, to my knowledge he has had no character issues. Trade Deltha and pick this guy up in the Supplemental? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted May 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 Georgia CB Paul Oliver has been declared academicaly ineligible for the 2007 season, and plans to enter the supplemental draft. He is currently rated the #1 senior CB and #6 overall senior prospect....Trade Deltha and pick this guy up in the Supplemental? It first glance it seems pretty unlikely, but I can't reject the idea out of hand. Frankly, Deltha isn't the only CB on the Bengals roster who doesn't seem to have a long-term future here and depending on how his situation is handled the depth behind Joseph and Hall could become nonexistent at seasons end. So while the idea of adding yet another young CB may not seem like a pressing need it's just as true that it wouldn't be a pure luxury pick. So I guess the real question that I have is what round would the Bengals have to bid to win Oliver's services? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DesperateDerelict Posted May 18, 2007 Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 Georgia CB Paul Oliver has been declared academicaly ineligible for the 2007 season, and plans to enter the supplemental draft. He is currently rated the #1 senior CB and #6 overall senior prospect....Trade Deltha and pick this guy up in the Supplemental? It first glance it seems pretty unlikely, but I can't reject the idea out of hand.....So I guess the real question that I have is what round would the Bengals have to bid to win Oliver's services?Unless he flops at ProDay workout or proves to be incapable of picking up defensive schemes, it would probably take a 2nd round pick => that's ALOT of $$$$ tied up in the secondary (1st rounders JJ & Hall, 2nd rounders Madieu & Oliver; FA Jackson). Also, this year it actually HURT not to have a 3rd round pick - not having a 2nd would suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrod382 Posted May 18, 2007 Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 I'm all for the Oliver move.There's talk of him lasting till the 3rd although I expect the 2nd, maybe even first if the Patriots wanted to pull the trigger (I kinda doubt). If he did by some miracle last to the 3rd round then take him (we might have a 3rd round comp pick anyway) and dump Deltha. Between Oliver and Hall someone will produce. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekshank Posted May 18, 2007 Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 I don't see the Bengals making this move... but they are likely in far better shape to take a stab at the supplemental draft this year than last. They will likely get multiple compensatory picks next year with all the losses in FA, so having one less pick wouldn't likely hurt as badly.I'll agree that it would probably take a 2nd round pick, and that's a lofty price - but you won't hear me complain about having too much money wrapped up in the secondary. I just simply don't see it happening. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrod382 Posted May 18, 2007 Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 This is the way I look at it. IMO He's not worth a 2nd rounder to us but definetely a 3rd.Here's why...Keiwan and Deltha are likely gone next year, we would need a new nickel back.When Hall's contract runs out we would have wiggle room and if Hall was too much then Oliver would be a fine backup plan.Getting Oliver in the 3rd would be insane value.With that said, I think someone burns a 2nd rounder on him or if he did last to the 3rd one of the first teams with the chance would jump on it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted May 18, 2007 Author Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 I'm all for the Oliver move.There's talk of him lasting till the 3rd although I expect the 2nd, maybe even first if the Patriots wanted to pull the trigger (I kinda doubt). If he did by some miracle last to the 3rd round then take him (we might have a 3rd round comp pick anyway) and dump Deltha. Between Oliver and Hall someone will produce. That's about how I had it figured. I can't see a team bidding a 1st round pick, but the line of teams willing to spend a 3rd rounder would be so long that the Bengals probably wouldn't have a shot at the winning bid. So that probably dictates bidding a 2nd round pick, an idea that I don't hate at all, but....(voice trails off) Quite frankly, I guess the reason I'm hesitant to fully embrace a move like this has nothing to do with the cost of a 2nd round pick, but because I've never been in the Cut Deltha Squad, and the presence of O'Neal allows the Bengals to put off this type of move until next season....when you have a better idea of team needs and possible replacements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShulaSteakhouse Posted May 18, 2007 Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 Yeah and afer investing two back-to-back 1st round picks on CB's, do they really need to spend another day one pick (ultimately) on a CB?(in addition to reaching for Keiwan in the 2nd not too long ago)I'd much rather see them land a solid 0-lineman, and have them hash out their differences with Deltha.Having JJ, Leon and Deltha in the backfield makes for a really tough secondary when you factor in Madeiu/Dexter/White as well.Work with that and start addressing other, more pressing needs (a center and a guard for one) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted May 18, 2007 Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 Yeah and afer investing two back-to-back 1st round picks on CB's, do they really need to spend another day one pick (ultimately) on a CB?Probably. Remember, Keiwan and Greg Brooks are both UFAs next year, and neither has done anything to earn more than a lovely parting gift. That leaves the Bengals with JJoe, Hall, career special teamer Blue Adams...and Deltha. Even if they smooth Deltha's ruffled feathers, they're still going to need a viable fourth corner option in case any of the top three get hurt.The trouble I have is that I'm not sure there's a roster slot for Oliver right now. The team's already overloaded at S, DT and LB (and even more so if Odell returns). And I don't think you can afford to replace Ratliff or Brooks, as flawed as they might be, with a supplemental pick who'll be in he same "behind the curve" boat as Ahmad Brooks was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted May 18, 2007 Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 Note from Lance's blog...Friday 05-18-2007 8:40amSights seenI'm told Deltha O'Neal was working out on the track at Loveland HS this morning. He showed up mid-morning. He was with a person believed to be his brother as he worked out. A student asked him why he was not at Bengal's voluntary workouts and he said, "those are voluntary, I don't have to go to those." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrod382 Posted May 18, 2007 Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 Note from Lance's blog...Friday 05-18-2007 8:40amSights seenI'm told Deltha O'Neal was working out on the track at Loveland HS this morning. He showed up mid-morning. He was with a person believed to be his brother as he worked out. A student asked him why he was not at Bengal's voluntary workouts and he said, "those are voluntary, I don't have to go to those."Gotta love Deltha's attitude Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC_Bengals_Fan Posted May 18, 2007 Report Share Posted May 18, 2007 I grew tired of reading Paul Daughtery after he slammed Bob Huggins day in and day out for years.Sometimes it takes somebody to keep pointing out that s**t stinks if the locals can't smell it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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