Fly Deltha?

[HairOnFire]

More bad sportswriting by Paul Daugherty.

In short, Daugherty claims Lewis has shown that he'll cut any player on the roster if he's got better options, but he's stuck with Deltha. And he's stuck because Lewis doesn't have any options....except the 1st round draft pick who just might replace Deltha immediately. As for Deltha, he'll play because the Bengals have alot of money invested in him, but he'll be a malcontent because the Bengals aren't paying him any money. Confused? Well apparently so is Daugherty. In fact, I'd say the only thing Paul Daugherty is positive about is how this gives him another opportunity to go negative.

No mater though, as we're all painfully aware by now that this is what passes for sportswriting in the river city. Enjoy.

Doc: Lewis stuck with O'Neal

BY PAUL DAUGHERTY | PDAUGHERTY@ENQUIRER.COM

Maybe Deltha O’Neal will make it to a “voluntary” Bengals workout, and maybe he won’t. He missed another one Wednesday, even after Marvin Lewis’ potent salvo in his direction Tuesday afternoon. “He just put himself further behind,” Lewis observed. It’s not often the Bengals coach is so pointed and public in his criticism. “He’s missing out (on) an opportunity to restart himself.”

Either O’Neal wants to make a point about something, or he is a very busy man. Regardless, unless he blows a knee or blows off the mandatory minicamp June 1-3, he will be starting at cornerback to open the season. It’d be nice if O’Neal had a great attitude. As long as he can play, it’s not mandatory.

We see this all the time in the pros, where players are almost always more powerful than coaches. We see it in college, too, where coaches grovel in living rooms, for the services of 17-year-olds with girlfriend problems.

Big-time coaching might seem like a great gig, and in some ways it is, if you’re into TV time and lots of money. It also involves a belly-full of devil-dealing and pride swallowing.

If a player has talent and you have money invested in him, the player is going to play. Even when he no-shows at a voluntary workout. Don’t think the player doesn’t know that.

Marvin Lewis was right with everything he said after Tuesday’s session. O’Neal should have been there. He needs to get his mind right and his game on track. Every team watches the same film the Bengals watch. (Though, to be fair, if teams noted the O’Neal of ’06, they also recalled the Pro Bowl, 10-interception O’Neal of ’05.)

O’Neal hurts himself by not taking part. He hurts his team. He appears to be sticking it to his coach, or at least the organization.

Which prompts the question: How much compromising should a coach do?

Where is the line between a player’s ability and a coach’s credibility? A very good thing about the Marvin Lewis Era is, everyone knows who’s in charge. Lewis will play you until he can replace you with someone better or younger or, in some cases, cheaper. See: Brian Simmons, Eric Steinbach, Kevin Kaesviharn. See, especially: Tory James. There is accountability with this coach.

An out-of-shape and oft-nicked Sam Adams managed not to practice all last summer and occasionally during the season. The Bengals needed his alleged run-stuffing presence, though, so practice-missing was tolerated. The Size-XXL defensive tackle started all 16 games and contributed all of 25 tackles. Now he’s out of work, because the team believes second-year player Domata Peko is better.

There will come a time, probably sooner than later, when Lewis will look at the first-round draft pick Leon Hall and judge him to be a better player than Deltha O’Neal. At that point, O’Neal will sit and eventually, be looking for work.

It is said O’Neal wanted his current five-year contract reworked after the 2005 season, his second as a Bengal. Given his previous difficulties in Denver, where as a former No. 1 pick, he lost his starting job and fell into coach Mike Shanahan’s doghouse, the club said no, show us more.

O’Neal didn’t. He played poorly last season. He’s not off to a great start in this one. And yet he will play because, along with quarterback, pass-rushing end and left tackle, cornerback is the most important position on the field, and can be the hardest to fill. And because ultimately, coaches do what they must to win. It’s a compromise some of us would hate to have to make, day after day. It’s standard procedure for coaches.

Pro coaching is more about managing people than managing games. The coaches who are good at that survive. Marvin Lewis applies the pressure and sends the message by upping the competition. The coach liked Leon Hall in rookie workouts last week. He liked him a lot.

[walshfan]

Why the hate for Deltha and none for TJ? Has TJ been to the VOLUNTARY OTA's yet?

[ShulaSteakhouse]

TJ cleared it with Marvin ahead of time - Deltha the lame-o just didn't show.

I thought Deltha's problems had something to do with the Bengals' not wanting to re-up his deal, after his pro bowl year.

[walshfan]

TJ cleared it with Marvin ahead of time - Deltha the lame-o just didn't show.

I thought Deltha's problems had something to do with the Bengals' not wanting to re-up his deal, after his pro bowl year.

I think he was angry about not getting an extension after his pro-bowl 05 season....

His 06 year was marred by injury and the fact that he was getting close to 30 yrs of age may have played a role in the team not extending him..

Why he isnt in camp isnt clear but it is voluntary no??? Dude may be working out and come into mandatory camp in great shape and ready to play... I think the media is blowing this way out of line...

[ShulaSteakhouse]

TJ cleared it with Marvin ahead of time - Deltha the lame-o just didn't show.

I thought Deltha's problems had something to do with the Bengals' not wanting to re-up his deal, after his pro bowl year.

I think he was angry about not getting an extension after his pro-bowl 05 season....

His 06 year was marred by injury and the fact that he was getting close to 30 yrs of age may have played a role in the team not extending him..

Why he isnt in camp isnt clear but it is voluntary no??? Dude may be working out and come into mandatory camp in great shape and ready to play... I think the media is blowing this way out of line...

Yeah and we're talking about Mike Brown, so he's not going to pay good $ for anything other than a RB, QB, OT or DE. Since apparently those are the only positions you need good players at to win, according to him, and his track record really backs that philosophy up. <sic>

I wish the Bengals' would deal with Delta and make some sort of effort (assuming they really haven't) to get him back in the swing of things here, give him a bonus or something, who cares.. Christ, it's been almost 20 years since this team went to a SuperBowl, just suck up the pride and get people engaged for God's sakes.

Is the media blowing it out of proportion? Not really, only Curnutte and Daughtery have written about it. And Curnutte wrote good things about the rest of the players for all of the fragile minds out there who can only tolerate positive press.

Vet players not showing up for voluntaries has always made beat headlines around here and elsewhere.

I'm not sure why Hair thinks Deltha's situation shouldn't apply, ecspecially after a recent history of disengagement from the team and the problems he's had in the past.

Seems like a malcontent to me, with a DUI to boot. I like the guy as a player, he could be a great CB, but instead he's just a lazy bum and I'm sick of that crap around here. Get guys who want to win - not just get paid and who show up for one season.

Shannahan had the same problems with Deltha, and eventually got rid of him. Not sure why he should be treated differently here. Because they're the Bengals' and their fans are ok with losing and drunks on the roster?

[walshfan]

He blew a .009 ...Whats that 3 beers in an hour and a half?

Hardly classifies him as a drunk... ( dont get me into legal limits )

Bottom line is the team could have ( should have ) given the guy an extension for a couple years or flipped him some bonus money but they chose to keep the green in the family and spend it on great players like Sam Adams, Ohalete and the Alex Stepanovich's of the world...

Does that make sense to not keep your better players happy and productive?

[HoosierCat]

More bad sportswriting by Paul Daugherty.

In short, Daugherty claims Lewis has shown that he'll cut any player on the roster if he's got better options, but he's stuck with Deltha. And he's stuck because Lewis doesn't have any options....except the 1st round draft pick who just might replace Deltha immediately. As for Deltha, he'll play because the Bengals have alot of money invested in him, but he'll be a malcontent because the Bengals aren't paying him any money. Confused? Well apparently so is Daugherty. In fact, I'd say the only thing Paul Daugherty is positive about is how this gives him another opportunity to go negative.

Wow. Biased much? I don't know where you get any of that out of this piece. Negative? How so? The Bengals have a lot of money invested in Deltha? He says that where? Deltha is unhappy because he didn't get a big new deal after 05? Common knowledge. And Lewis will play him even if he blows off voluntaries? Well, that'd be about as surprising as discovering water is wet.

Sheesh, what crawled up your a$$ today? I thought Doc was your new BFF since he agreed with you on the discipline issue. But one (frankly dull) column on Deltha and he sucks again? Or at least he sucks when you make him say a bunch of stuff he didn't actually say. Well...OK.

[Jet23]

He blew a .009 ...Whats that 3 beers in an hour and a half?

Hardly classifies him as a drunk... ( dont get me into legal limits )

Bottom line is the team could have ( should have ) given the guy an extension for a couple years or flipped him some bonus money but they chose to keep the green in the family and spend it on great players like Sam Adams, Ohalete and the Alex Stepanovich's of the world...

Does that make sense to not keep your better players happy and productive?

Wasn't he also stopped at one of 12,000 check points this city proudly offers. That is absolute crap. I would venture to say that more than 1/2 the people on this board has driven worse than that within the last two weeks.

They were supposedly shopping him during the draft. My guess is that nobody would offer anything better than a 5th or possibly 4th round pick. I say let him play this year for a contract. Joseph & Hall are the future and hell maybe Brooks will make it off the training table one day.

I too am weary of FA's coming here to die. I know, Mikey will never overpay for a FA. Had the Packers not overpaid for Reggie White, Brett Favre never gets a ring.

[The PatternMaster]

I think we should just ignore this, it's really not that big of a deal. This is Deltha's way of showing the Brown family he's unhappy and I think he has a right to be. People are judging him on his past in Denver and not giving him the opportunity to have a clean slate by bringing up what happened in Denver.

I like Deltha, I know he's the best corner this franchise has had since Ken Riley, but the Brown family doesn't respect his abilities because of what happened in Denver. Deltha's '06 season wasn't as bad as everyone is making it out to be. Yes, he was banged up a bit and struggled on a few plays, but what player didn't struggle last year? Carson missed on a few throws in key situations that could have changed the outcome of the game, Rudi couldn't break a long run to save his life, CJ was dropping passes and in and out of the training room in key situations, and I could go.

I really think the Brown family should re-consider their position on O'Neal, he's a talented player who has helped this team reach the playoffs and he is key to us going further and having more success. I think JoJo is a great young talent, but Kiewan looked good in his rookie year so if he regresses some this year I wouldn't be that surprised. Hall is a rookie and Keiwan is solid but not really an elite athlete you want at the cb position.

Besides, Steinbach's DUI didn't stop the Browns from giving him big money, Deltha would be happy with a fraction of that. I'm sure he thinks the front office are hypocrites and they are looking like that by coming up reasons for not giving him a raise he earned in '05.

[derekshank]

I'm sure he thinks the front office are hypocrites and they are looking like that by coming up reasons for not giving him a raise he earned in '05.

He has the right to think whatever he wants... but he signed the contract. If he doesn't like the money he's playing for, there's one really good way to get paid. That is continuing to play well, and then you'll either get extended, or make fat cash in FA. He chose option 'C' and now there is no reason in hell any team would want to give him the kind of money he thinks he deserves.

I've got one bit of advice for Deltha. Get your ass in camp, then work it off. If he has another season like he did in '05, he'll get his money. But if he continues the route he's been going down since last season, he'll never see it.

[HoosierCat]

I think we should just ignore this, it's really not that big of a deal.

A-yup. Let's see, player blows off some voluntary OTAs? Happens everywhere. Coach makes dire comments regarding player's absence? Happens everywhere. Ceases to be an issue by training camp? Happens everywhere.

[derekshank]

I think we should just ignore this, it's really not that big of a deal.

A-yup. Let's see, player blows off some voluntary OTAs? Happens everywhere. Coach makes dire comments regarding player's absence? Happens everywhere. Ceases to be an issue by training camp? Happens everywhere.

Yeah, it does... but Deltha was already in Marvin's doghouse. It's not a good sign that he's showing no effort to get out of it. I'm pulling for him to rebound, and I'd agree that there's not a whole lot to this story - but it doesn't tak much effort to see the correlation between his situation in Denver and what appears to be happening here.

[Stripes]

I also think Daugherty sucks, but I don't have a problem with this piece. His stance seems to be pro-Marvin and anti-Deltha... the same as my own. He was a disappointment last season, has had well documented conflict with the coaching staff, and has a history of similar activity in Denver. Leon Hall was just drafted in the first round to replace him eventually. If he wants to skip voluntary workouts because he's lazy, disinterested, or he wants to send a message... let him. It'll be his loss in the end.

[The PatternMaster]

I'm sure he thinks the front office are hypocrites and they are looking like that by coming up reasons for not giving him a raise he earned in '05.

He has the right to think whatever he wants... but he signed the contract. If he doesn't like the money he's playing for, there's one really good way to get paid. That is continuing to play well, and then you'll either get extended, or make fat cash in FA. He chose option 'C' and now there is no reason in hell any team would want to give him the kind of money he thinks he deserves.

I've got one bit of advice for Deltha. Get your ass in camp, then work it off. If he has another season like he did in '05, he'll get his money. But if he continues the route he's been going down since last season, he'll never see it.

I agree 100%, I don't know why anyone would ask for a raise and then not show up to their job, life doesn't work that in the real world. When most people ask for a raise they bust their butts and give more effort, but hey it's the wacky world of the NFL.

If Deltha's mad, he should it as motivation to show people who doubt him they were wrong.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

I agree 100%, I don't know why anyone would ask for a raise and then not show up to their job, life doesn't work that in the real world. When most people ask for a raise they bust their butts and give more effort, but hey it's the wacky world of the NFL.

If Deltha's mad, he should it as motivation to show people who doubt him they were wrong.

This is where Deltha's agent should be getting his ass in gear. Let's think about this Deltha - you have one last chance to sign a decent contract. You're two years removed from your best year. Last year was bad, and you're in the coach's doghouse. Your team has just used its last *two* first round picks on your position. Clearly, you ain't the future here.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out Deltha is not re-signing in Cincinnati. He is now autidioning for his next contract, which is two years away. His best case scenario is to play his ass off this year and get traded to a team that will get an extension.

However, that will be hard to do if he gets his coach pissed off to the point that he's not playing halfway through the season. So where's the agent in all this?

[HairOnFire]

I don't know where you get any of that out of this piece. Negative? How so?

Where to begin? Well, how about the beginning? Am I really the only one who read the title of the article..."Lewis stuck with O'Neal" and found it to be unfairly negative? I mean c'mon, your own response to the article is that the situation isn't a big deal, it happens everywhere, and Lewis's complaints about O'Neal are little more than coachspeak. So defend your boy, if you can, and the title he plastered on the article.

The Bengals have a lot of money invested in Deltha? He says that where?

"If a player has talent and you have money invested in him, the player is going to play. Even when he no-shows at a voluntary workout. Don’t think the player doesn’t know that." --- Doc

I thought Doc was your new BFF since he agreed with you on the discipline issue. But one (frankly dull) column on Deltha and he sucks again?

He's always sucked. The simple truth is that he's a crappy sportswriter, but even he isn't going to get it wrong on every issue, and I'm not so biased that I won't agree with him when he manages to make sense on the rare occasion.

Or at least he sucks when you make him say a bunch of stuff he didn't actually say. Well...OK.

Actually, he said everything I said he did, and I provided the examples when you asked for them. Granted, I realize that I'm not going to change your opinion because I'm well aware that Paul Daugherty is a favorite of yours. Then again, you're one of the guys who consistently defends PFT as a valuable source of accurate information.

So maybe my standards are higher than yours.

[The PatternMaster]

I agree 100%, I don't know why anyone would ask for a raise and then not show up to their job, life doesn't work that in the real world. When most people ask for a raise they bust their butts and give more effort, but hey it's the wacky world of the NFL.

If Deltha's mad, he should it as motivation to show people who doubt him they were wrong.

This is where Deltha's agent should be getting his ass in gear. Let's think about this Deltha - you have one last chance to sign a decent contract. You're two years removed from your best year. Last year was bad, and you're in the coach's doghouse. Your team has just used its last *two* first round picks on your position. Clearly, you ain't the future here.

It doesn't take a genius to figure out Deltha is not re-signing in Cincinnati. He is now autidioning for his next contract, which is two years away. His best case scenario is to play his ass off this year and get traded to a team that will get an extension.

However, that will be hard to do if he gets his coach pissed off to the point that he's not playing halfway through the season. So where's the agent in all this?

Maybe is agents is telling him to sit out hoping he gets cut in the June 1st trimming of the fat, old, injured knowing all along he already has a bigger contract awaiting him if does get cut. The way FA is going this offseason Deltha could easily double his salary on the open market, look at what Nate Clements got and Deltha has more int's in his two best seasons than Clements does for his whole career. This is why I think the Bengals should pony up the cash, but it's too late now.

I mean what are they going to do, you can't cut him and get nothing for him in return and create a huge void at a critical position. They can't give him a raise because then it will weaken their position at the negotiation table with players in similar situations. If you keep him around he could very easily be a "cancer" by being negative and not giving 100% because he doesn't feel apprieciated.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Where to begin? Well, how about the beginning? Am I really the only one who read the title of the article..."Lewis stuck with O'Neal" and found it to be unfairly negative? I mean c'mon, your own response to the article is that the situation isn't a big deal, it happens everywhere, and Lewis's complaints about O'Neal are little more than coachspeak. So defend your boy, if you can, and the title he plastered on the article.

Personally, I found it quite fair. Marvin has a player who has some amount of talent and, apparantly, no work ethic. If I were a manager, I wouldn't be happy to be 'stuck' with such an employee. The term 'stuck' also implies Marvin can't get rid of him; realistically, he can't, probably considering the cap hit as well as the fact that his replacement still hasn't played (and his backup, Ratliff, is awful).

Clearly Marvin doesn't seem to want him around; would you contest that? Marvin also has no choice about it for the time being. So 'stuck' is appropriate.

Note that this won't be the first time O'Neal got run off a team because he didn't work hard enough. Once could be an abberation. Twice is starting to be a pattern.

[DesperateDerelict]

I also think Daugherty sucks, but I don't have a problem with this piece.

Regardless of the piece, Daugherty sucks.

[The PatternMaster]

Where to begin? Well, how about the beginning? Am I really the only one who read the title of the article..."Lewis stuck with O'Neal" and found it to be unfairly negative? I mean c'mon, your own response to the article is that the situation isn't a big deal, it happens everywhere, and Lewis's complaints about O'Neal are little more than coachspeak. So defend your boy, if you can, and the title he plastered on the article.

Personally, I found it quite fair. Marvin has a player who has some amount of talent and, apparantly, no work ethic. If I were a manager, I wouldn't be happy to be 'stuck' with such an employee. The term 'stuck' also implies Marvin can't get rid of him; realistically, he can't, probably considering the cap hit as well as the fact that his replacement still hasn't played (and his backup, Ratliff, is awful).

Clearly Marvin doesn't seem to want him around; would you contest that? Marvin also has no choice about it for the time being. So 'stuck' is appropriate.

Note that this won't be the first time O'Neal got run off a team because he didn't work hard enough. Once could be an abberation. Twice is starting to be a pattern.

Mike Shanahan is a coach who teachs his o-line to attack defenders knees and ankles, imo he's right behind Osama Bin Laden and OJ Simpson in the scumbag line. Deltha struggled after a great rookie season, I don't think trying to change him to a wr is the best way to motivate a young talented guy like O'Neal.

[DC_Bengals_Fan]

Where to begin? Well, how about the beginning? Am I really the only one who read the title of the article..."Lewis stuck with O'Neal" and found it to be unfairly negative? I mean c'mon, your own response to the article is that the situation isn't a big deal, it happens everywhere, and Lewis's complaints about O'Neal are little more than coachspeak. So defend your boy, if you can, and the title he plastered on the article.

Personally, I found it quite fair. Marvin has a player who has some amount of talent and, apparantly, no work ethic. If I were a manager, I wouldn't be happy to be 'stuck' with such an employee. The term 'stuck' also implies Marvin can't get rid of him; realistically, he can't, probably considering the cap hit as well as the fact that his replacement still hasn't played (and his backup, Ratliff, is awful).

Clearly Marvin doesn't seem to want him around; would you contest that? Marvin also has no choice about it for the time being. So 'stuck' is appropriate.

Note that this won't be the first time O'Neal got run off a team because he didn't work hard enough. Once could be an abberation. Twice is starting to be a pattern.

Mike Shanahan is a coach who teachs his o-line to attack defenders knees and ankles, imo he's right behind Osama Bin Laden and OJ Simpson in the scumbag line. Deltha struggled after a great rookie season, I don't think trying to change him to a wr is the best way to motivate a young talented guy like O'Neal.

Admittedly, and if it weren't Shanahan I'd be ready to toss Oneal under the bus for sure. That said, 1) Shanahan doesn't have the entire 53 man roster in his doghouse, and 2) Oneal was in the doghouse before the WR switch; that's why the switch happened.

In any event, Oneal has no leverage and holding out will not help his situation, and that alone makes it pretty clear that he doesn't have the best judgement or much drive.

[The PatternMaster]

Where to begin? Well, how about the beginning? Am I really the only one who read the title of the article..."Lewis stuck with O'Neal" and found it to be unfairly negative? I mean c'mon, your own response to the article is that the situation isn't a big deal, it happens everywhere, and Lewis's complaints about O'Neal are little more than coachspeak. So defend your boy, if you can, and the title he plastered on the article.

Personally, I found it quite fair. Marvin has a player who has some amount of talent and, apparantly, no work ethic. If I were a manager, I wouldn't be happy to be 'stuck' with such an employee. The term 'stuck' also implies Marvin can't get rid of him; realistically, he can't, probably considering the cap hit as well as the fact that his replacement still hasn't played (and his backup, Ratliff, is awful).

Clearly Marvin doesn't seem to want him around; would you contest that? Marvin also has no choice about it for the time being. So 'stuck' is appropriate.

Note that this won't be the first time O'Neal got run off a team because he didn't work hard enough. Once could be an abberation. Twice is starting to be a pattern.

Mike Shanahan is a coach who teachs his o-line to attack defenders knees and ankles, imo he's right behind Osama Bin Laden and OJ Simpson in the scumbag line. Deltha struggled after a great rookie season, I don't think trying to change him to a wr is the best way to motivate a young talented guy like O'Neal.

Admittedly, and if it weren't Shanahan I'd be ready to toss Oneal under the bus for sure. That said, 1) Shanahan doesn't have the entire 53 man roster in his doghouse, and 2) Oneal was in the doghouse before the WR switch; that's why the switch happened.

In any event, Oneal has no leverage and holding out will not help his situation, and that alone makes it pretty clear that he doesn't have the best judgement or much drive.

That's assuming he wants to be apart of this team.

I bet you if Deltha was released tomorrow he would be employed in a week's time. There is a method to his preceived madness.

[HairOnFire]

Clearly Marvin doesn't seem to want him around; would you contest that? Marvin also has no choice about it for the time being. So 'stuck' is appropriate.

Sure I can contest it. After all, I'm on record saying that there's no way I cut O'Neal even if he loses his starting job PRECISELY because his salary isn't so great that he couldn't be kept as a pure backup, and if that transpires he's talented enough to transform that position into a team strength. So even in the worst case scenario I'm not feeling stuck. Instead, I act in my own self interest and ignore Deltha's complaints because he's in no position to do anything about it. In fact, he needs to play well this season to have any hope of cashing in big.

Simply put, due to the way salaries are negotiated in the NFL you're always going to have a mix of layers who are overpaid and underpaid at any given moment. So why would anyone suggest that the Bengals simply cut a player who was currently under contract for less than his veteran replacement would cost? That's a pretty good thing, right? And so much the better if you prepare for that underpaid players eventual departure by drafting a younger more capable replacement.

Last, when it comes to giving raises I don't have a problem with the Bengals stance that O'Neal needed to show more after the 2005 season precisely because of his past history. And the only way anyone would consider it now is if they had just finished sniffin' glue.

[Jet23]

I'm not in love with Daugherty, but the only time he gets slammed on this site is when he writes anything negative about the Bengals. New flash people, everything is not perfect in Bengal Land. To start with, we are stuck with the 2nd worst Owner (Bidwell by a nose) in all of professional sports. This has a trickle down effect. ML is doing the best job he can under the circumstances. I have said it before, ML takes chances on character issue guys, because he has to. To win in the NFL, you must have better talent than the next guy. Heaven forbid Mikey actually opens up his wallet long enough to sign an impact FA that isn't looking for one final payday. Consequently, they are forced to cut corners.

Every move Brown makes is about money. I will say that again, every move Brown makes is about money, and how much more he can hang on to. I know I'm living in the past, blah, blah freaking blah.

[HairOnFire]

I bet you if Deltha was released tomorrow he would be employed in a week's time. There is a method to his preceived madness.

Well, maybe he should talk to Corey Dillon about how long it takes to talk and pout your way off of this team.

Bottom Line: Deltha O'Neal will leave this team on the Bengals terms, and with Leon Hall's footprints all over his back.