derekshank Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 By the way... what the Bengals picked up for trading out of the spot were Deltha O'Neil (from Denver) and Stacy Andrews (4th round pick from St. Louis). [i'm not going to try to defend the Chris Perry pick... but the trades were worth it.Actually we got Deltha and Robert Geathers from Denver for dropping back from 17 to 24.We got Stacey from the Rams for dropping back from 24 to 26.Yep... that's what I said. I didn't mention the Geathers selection, but I did mention we got Deltha from Denver, and Andrews from the St. Louis pick.All in all, even without Perry, getting Geathers and Andrews was worth trading down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sox Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 I can see the Bengals phone ringing if Ginn is there at 18,and not just from the Titans.If Ginn is indeed there(which I don't believe will happen) the Titans may well have to give more than a sixth to move up one spot if they truly want him,especially if other teams are willing to give up a higher pick.But I still believe Ginn is gone at 18. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMC Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 By the way... what the Bengals picked up for trading out of the spot were Deltha O'Neil (from Denver) and Stacy Andrews (4th round pick from St. Louis). [i'm not going to try to defend the Chris Perry pick... but the trades were worth it.Actually we got Deltha and Robert Geathers from Denver for dropping back from 17 to 24.We got Stacey from the Rams for dropping back from 24 to 26.Yep... that's what I said. I didn't mention the Geathers selection, but I did mention we got Deltha from Denver, and Andrews from the St. Louis pick.All in all, even without Perry, getting Geathers and Andrews was worth trading down.That gives a bit of mental relief over Perry's underproduction.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrod382 Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 I have been by Marvins side since the beginning but this would REALLY make me question him... It'd just be a terrible choice.Balanced teams win SB's, building up our offense even more is just dumb and you can't take that kind of risk in a 1st round to swap him positions.I doubt it happening but to know there's even the slightest chance is annoying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrod382 Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 I want whatever those of you that actually want him are smoking, are you serious? He'll never be as good as Henry and he'd be our #4 WR next year. How would Ted Ginn take us to the next level when we have ZERO playmakers on defense? We have one of the top 3 QB's and WR combos in the league with a solid RB and you want to take a WR in the first round? Were is the balance in that?Assuming Marvin is sane it's just to get someone in front of us to take him (leaving hopefully one more defender on the board) or getting someone to trade up to or below us to take him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stripes Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 As I mentioned in another thread, I think KC's trading away of Dante Hall could impact this scenario. They'll be likely to target Ginn now to replace him, and that may be enough to get them to trade up to our spot ahead of Tennessee. If we could snag another 4th or 5th rounder to move down just a few spots, I'd be all for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 Well any corner we take should sit atleast 1 year,Ginn would have 2 years under coyle to get rdy be a starting CB all same i'd rather take someone whos been playing CB past 3 years but if he was drafted as CB I woulden't complain vs a WR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierCat Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 Well, the thing to consider in the whole Ginn-to-CB scenario is something Hobson mentions in his latest Hobson's Choice column. In the course of arguing that they should take a DB instead of a LB like Jon Beason, he notes:But the team is stunningly thin in the secondary. With Joseph now promoted to starter and safety Kevin Kaesviharn in New Orleans, the Bengals are basically missing their top two nickel backs that are on the field more than half the time.So, if you were going to move Ginn to the secondary, you dont need to rush him into a starter's role, but could work him in as a nickle/dime type.Now, I'm not saying they ought to do that. If they want a corner, I say they should draft a corner; I've had enough with the position switching thing. But as always, the bengals don't listen to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrod382 Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 Since Marvin has come on board I've never been a "worst draft ever" person but taking Ginn would be a very good start to a bad one for us.I wouldn't want him if we were thin at WR (I don't have the OSU goggles on so I can see him for what he is). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kazkal Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 Well seems pointless take ginn over a ross or Revis,Ya he's a better returner but their better CB's right now.He has more upside if he pans out but he also has bust written all over him.I'd rather have Revis,Ross,Houston,Hall playing next to Jjoe for next 5 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hrod382 Posted April 25, 2007 Report Share Posted April 25, 2007 Yeah if we took Ginn over Revis I'd go insane. Revis is a PR and our KR's have always been fairly successful (granted they don't take it to the house). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stripes Posted April 26, 2007 Report Share Posted April 26, 2007 The problem with the Revis/PR argument I've had is that I wouldn't ever want a starter returning kicks. Revis would probably end up a starter in the long-run too, assuming he pans out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted April 26, 2007 Report Share Posted April 26, 2007 Well any corner we take should sit atleast 1 year, Not a chance. If the Bengals draft a real CB from the first two rounds...and I'm not including Ginn...that player will play early and often, just as JJ did last season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoTbOy Posted April 26, 2007 Report Share Posted April 26, 2007 If MLewis is using this talk as trade bait then that is fine with me, but I hope that that's all it is...TGinn is a good player, and if we draft him we will be trying to outscore our opponents all the time like we do now...We need to be able to shut people out sometime to beat them or keep scores low not 38-35 games all the time...Plain and simple we need D...we can address the WR, later in the draft, and like HC said RB and TE are more pressing right now anyway... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekshank Posted April 26, 2007 Report Share Posted April 26, 2007 As I mentioned in another thread, I think KC's trading away of Dante Hall could impact this scenario. They'll be likely to target Ginn now to replace him, and that may be enough to get them to trade up to our spot ahead of Tennessee. If we could snag another 4th or 5th rounder to move down just a few spots, I'd be all for it.Trading from 23 to 18 for the Cheifs would actually be worth 140 points... and their 3rd round pick is worth 170. DEAL!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duus Posted April 26, 2007 Report Share Posted April 26, 2007 As I mentioned in another thread, I think KC's trading away of Dante Hall could impact this scenario. They'll be likely to target Ginn now to replace him, and that may be enough to get them to trade up to our spot ahead of Tennessee. If we could snag another 4th or 5th rounder to move down just a few spots, I'd be all for it.Trading from 23 to 18 for the Cheifs would actually be worth 140 points... and their 3rd round pick is worth 170. DEAL!!!Likewise ... done deal! Especially if Hall and Revis are off the board at 18 (which is likely at this point). Get a 3rd pick to move down 5 spots. Boy, that would make me happy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HairOnFire Posted April 26, 2007 Report Share Posted April 26, 2007 Trading from 23 to 18 for the Cheifs would actually be worth 140 points... and their 3rd round pick is worth 170. DEAL!!! Here's another wrinkle that might be more than pure speculation. I just read an article detailing Jerry Jones desire to add an offensive playmaker and Ginn was the player he admitted wanting more than any other. He was also quoted about his willingness and past history of moving up in the draft, especially in the 1st round. (Dallas drafts 22nd.) When reminded that Dallas hadn't made many trades under Bill Parcell Jones suggested that he would once again assume the control that he once had, and claimed that adding youth and speed at WR was one of the Cowboys biggest priorities. That said, the idea of polar opposites like Mike Brown and Jerry Jones agreeing to a trade is a tough sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
duus Posted April 26, 2007 Report Share Posted April 26, 2007 Trading from 23 to 18 for the Cheifs would actually be worth 140 points... and their 3rd round pick is worth 170. DEAL!!! Here's another wrinkle that might be more than pure speculation. I just read an article detailing Jerry Jones desire to add an offensive playmaker and Ginn was the player he admitted wanting more than any other. He was also quoted about his willingness and past history of moving up in the draft, especially in the 1st round. (Dallas drafts 22nd.) When reminded that Dallas hadn't made many trades under Bill Parcell Jones suggested that he would once again assume the control that he once had, and claimed that adding youth and speed at WR was one of the Cowboys biggest priorities. That said, the idea of polar opposites like Mike Brown and Jerry Jones agreeing to a trade is a tough sell.Even better. I'm going to hope that Ginn is there when our pick comes. We might just find ourselves with both the Chiefs and Cowboys wanting our pick. Nothing like a little competition to make the price a little better for our Bengals! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derekshank Posted April 26, 2007 Report Share Posted April 26, 2007 Well, I'd say that 11 is too early to take Ginn, so if SF doesn't grab him, the Bengals will certainly get offers (I don't see any of the teams 12-17 taking Ginn). The Titans are likely to take him if he's there at 19, so the Bengals pick at 18 would be about as long as a team could wait to trade up for him.On the other hand, I'm not completely sure the 9ers don't take him. If not at 11, they could also just trade down 5 or 6 picks to a place where it's more reasonable to grab Ginn.All in all, I doubt a trade happens... but if Ginn is there at 18, the Bengals wil almost certainly get offers from multiple teams (KC, Tenn, Dal), and at that point you can let them get into bidding war. I'd be just fine with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjakq27 Posted April 27, 2007 Report Share Posted April 27, 2007 The flipside is, is there anyone out there on defense that can help this team as fast (this season) as taking Ginn would be and letting him return kicks? I think you can win a lot of games if two-thirds of your team can control games, ie: offense and special teams. Being able to dictate field position will win a couple of games a year by itself. Since when do you need to burn a 1st round pick to get a quality kick returner? I think many people regard him as a guy with more than just one position. I believe Peter Warrick is a similar comparison excpet I don't think he played defense in high school. I hope they get help on defense with that first pick. My preference is a strong safety or a defensive lineman that can change the game. And I hope that maybe the can leverage Ginn for a third round pick or even something next year that they could use to move around in the draft if necessary. However if they decide to continue to load up on offensive weapons that can also help improve special teams, in this case Ginn, then I won't be on the ledge of building like some folks around here. But after the Chris Perry pick in 2004 and David Pollack in 2005, I won't be surprised by what they do anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stripes Posted April 27, 2007 Report Share Posted April 27, 2007 All in all, I doubt a trade happens... but if Ginn is there at 18, the Bengals wil almost certainly get offers from multiple teams (KC, Tenn, Dal), and at that point you can let them get into bidding war. I'd be just fine with that.Agreed.I look foward to seeing how Ginn can help the Bengals on draft day (not as their pick, but for trade purposes). Plenty of potential bidders look to be lining up right behind #18. Marvin and company have probably seen this too, and that could have contributed to their recent Ginn pimpage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjakq27 Posted April 27, 2007 Report Share Posted April 27, 2007 To the mods and all others. I merged an old thread from the College Draft board regarding Marvin's attendance at Ginn's workout day into this one on the Bengals board since it seems to be a hot topic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjakq27 Posted April 28, 2007 Report Share Posted April 28, 2007 Ginn to the Dolphins. Wow, is all I can say. This will be one that people will talk about for many years to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmyBengal Posted April 28, 2007 Report Share Posted April 28, 2007 Yep, I guess that pretty much ends this discussion !!!WHODEY !!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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