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BOTTOME LINE..BENGALS HAVE TO SIGN A LB


schnarfer

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People have penciled Thurman in and he is a major question mark. Pollack will not be back. You don't come back from and injury like that. Simmons is gone. How is this defense ranked as low as it was last year going to be better?

Why do so many of you fear the changes being made in a defense ranked as low as the Bengals?

As for the players who may not be back this season...Thurman didn't play a single down last season, so whatever he produces this season is a plus. Pollack played two snaps before his season ended, so anything he gives is a plus. At worst, the Bengals can now plan from the very start of the season for his absence. And by all means shed a tear or two for the loss of Brian Simmons, but remember that he missed nine games last season with a neck stinger.

Isn't the point that the Bengals D is NOT changing? Our young guys will be one year older and we'll likely have a few rookies, but our starters will be the same guys who failed to perform last season -- minus Simmons, which hurts -- and minus James, which probably helps. Anything Thurman contributes would help, but mark me down as another Negative Nelly who doesn't expect squat from the man.

And I don't understand the point you're making about Simmons -- he wouldn't be able to start this season because he got a neck stinger last year? Losing him hurts this D short-term.

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Question: Why would the Bengals spend the cash to bring in Tommy Polley when they already have Landon Johnson?

Answer: They wouldn't.

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minus Simmons, which hurts

how will this hurt us if he was one guys who were part of old crappy defense? plus with loss of tory alone will make defense leaps and bounds better.

Uh-huh. Y'know, for all Tory James sucked last season, he still had 4 picks. How many did his soon-to-be-replacement Joseph have? Yeah, none. And just a couple years back James was a Pro Bowler. How many Pro Bowls does Joesph have? Yeah, none. He's a promising young player and I have high expecations of him, but he has a ways to go to match even a James in his dotage.

As for Simmons, we haven't got anyone on the roster I would trust to equal his "sucky" '06 performance, much less '05. We already have question marks at the other two LB spots and now we've opened a third. Well, so be it. The cap giveth and the cap taketh away. But whether we are better at either of these two spots yet remains to be seen.

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Uh-huh. Y'know, for all Tory James sucked last season, he still had 4 picks. How many did his soon-to-be-replacement Joseph have? Yeah, none. And just a couple years back James was a Pro Bowler. How many Pro Bowls does Joesph have? Yeah, none. He's a promising young player and I have high expencations of him, but he has a ways to go to even match james in his dotage.

Even with the four interceptions considered, I don't think there should be any doubt that Joseph was the better of the two players last season. Joseph was among league leaders in passes defensed with 20 (sure, he was picked on, but he responded). If there was an official statistic for "completions given up as a CB" -- Tory would have Joseph beaten by double digits.

As for Simmons, we haven't got anyone on the roster I would trust to equal his "sucky" '06 performance, much less '05. We already have question marks at the other two LB spots and now we've opened a third. Well, so be it. The cap giveth and the cap taketh away. But whether we are better at either of these two spots yet remains to be seen.

I think Landon is better than Simmons at this point, but I figure to be in a small minority there.

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Uh-huh. Y'know, for all Tory James sucked last season, he still had 4 picks. How many did his soon-to-be-replacement Joseph have? Yeah, none. And just a couple years back James was a Pro Bowler

How many times did we have to watch him fall down as he made a half ass tackle? how many 1st downs were given up because he has to play 10 yards off someone? tory was servicable but I still dont miss him with Jjoe in his place....ya Jjoe had 0 ints should had 6 but theyll come this season... he also had 22 passes deflected which is preatty crazy since other top 2 rookie corners only had 3-6 with 2-3 ints.

plus we still have Oneal which i haven't given up on.

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Even with the four interceptions considered, I don't think there should be any doubt that Joseph was the better of the two players last season.

So we are all agreed that he was better than a Tory James who stank? Hardly a ringing endorsement, eh? Does not guarantee he'll ever approach what Tory was a couple years back -- and that's kind of the point, isn't it? Improving over '06 is easy. Getting back to '05...now that's hard.

I think Landon is better than Simmons at this point, but I figure to be in a small minority there.

Even if he is...he's not even yet signed for this year. I assume he'll sign the tender, but with no cap space to sign the likes of Tony Stewart, it would appear he's headed for unrestricted FA in '08.

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So we are all agreed that he was better than a Tory James who stank? Hardly a ringing endorsement, eh? Does not guarantee he'll ever approach what Tory was a couple years back -- and that's kind of the point, isn't it? Improving over '06 is easy. Getting back to '05...now that's hard.

I disagree. In his first NFL season, Joseph defensed more passes than Tory ever has in any season. Even in his Pro Bowl 2004 season, Tory was proned to giving up big plays because he was slower than the competition. Despite lacking speed, he made his living on consistently putting himself in a good position to make a play. Joseph flashed the same ability last season even without wrapping his hands around those picks, and he's one of the fastest players on the team to boot.

I expect much more from Joseph than I ever did Tory, and given his performance as a rookie I think that's a fair expectation.

Even if he is...he's not even yet signed for this year. I assume he'll sign the tender, but with no cap space to sign the likes of Tony Stewart, it would appear he's headed for unrestricted FA in '08.

True enough. I expect more of the same from the Bengals in free agency next season, so we'll see who among the many defensive players whose contracts expire next offseason they'll pursue hardest to resign.

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I disagree. In his first NFL season, Joseph defensed more passes than Tory ever has in any season. Even in his Pro Bowl 2004 season, Tory was proned to giving up big plays because he was slower than the competition. Despite lacking speed, he made his living on consistently putting himself in a good position to make a play. Joseph flashed the same ability last season even without wrapping his hands around those picks, and he's one of the fastest players on the team to boot.

It all sounds great, I agree. Everything looks good. On paper, he's a huge upgrade, just has to take that next step.

I await it. Meantime, to me, he's one more sophomore thrown into the fire.

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Isn't the point that the Bengals D is NOT changing? Our young guys will be one year older and we'll likely have a few rookies, but our starters will be the same guys who failed to perform last season -- minus Simmons, which hurts -- and minus James, which probably helps. Anything Thurman contributes would help, but mark me down as another Negative Nelly who doesn't expect squat from the man.

And I don't understand the point you're making about Simmons -- he wouldn't be able to start this season because he got a neck stinger last year? Losing him hurts this D short-term.

How can you say the defense isn't changing and then offer a list of how it will? They'll likely add two new starters from the draft, will get a push for increased playing time from Peko, Brooks, and Rucker, and just might get something from Odell Thurman. Ignore his potential return all you want, but if he gets his act together he's very easily one of the best defensive players the Bengals have.

As for my previous remark about Simmons, I was just pointing out that he missed more than half the season...which ironically included a stretch where the defense played at it's highest level. So maybe instead of worrying about how he has to be replaced it should be noted that he already had been.

I think Landon is better than Simmons at this point, but I figure to be in a small minority there.

I've got your back.

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Why do so many of you fear the changes being made in a defense ranked as low as the Bengals?

I don't know Hair. I often find your optimism refreshing, but I'm not feeling your logic here. We're talking about a team that was terrible last year, and the only real changes are back-ups being promoted to starters, and hopefully some impact rookies.

Granted, some of those guys might be better. Brooks could possibly be better than anyone we've had on the roster in a long, long time. Guys like Peko and Joseph might just get better and better - but honestly those are all question marks. It could be just as likely that they have sophomore slumps. I'm not one of the guys hoping that we go make a meaningless splash in free agency... but I also don't see this unit getting miraculously better simply because we're cutting dead weight.

All that said - keep up the positive attitude. It's nice to see someone on the board that has some optimism at this time of year.

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but I also don't see this unit getting miraculously better simply because we're cutting dead weight.

Nor do I. Unfortunately, I don't think there are any realistic ways for the Bengals to produce a noteably improved defense this season. They're taking the only responsible course of action available buy cutting dead weight and trusting the young players to improve. I'm confident that we have enough talent to grow into a solid unit down the road, but it may take another year or two.

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Uh-huh. Y'know, for all Tory James sucked last season, he still had 4 picks. How many did his soon-to-be-replacement Joseph have? Yeah, none. And just a couple years back James was a Pro Bowler. How many Pro Bowls does Joesph have? Yeah, none. He's a promising young player and I have high expencations of him, but he has a ways to go to even match james in his dotage.

Even with the four interceptions considered, I don't think there should be any doubt that Joseph was the better of the two players last season. Joseph was among league leaders in passes defensed with 20 (sure, he was picked on, but he responded). If there was an official statistic for "completions given up as a CB" -- Tory would have Joseph beaten by double digits.

As for Simmons, we haven't got anyone on the roster I would trust to equal his "sucky" '06 performance, much less '05. We already have question marks at the other two LB spots and now we've opened a third. Well, so be it. The cap giveth and the cap taketh away. But whether we are better at either of these two spots yet remains to be seen.

I think Landon is better than Simmons at this point, but I figure to be in a small minority there.

landon's tough as nails, thats about it. He proved himself last season in that category to me. Now if we can get him some help and solid backup play, we may see another side.

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landon's tough as nails, thats about it. He proved himself last season in that category to me. Now if we can get him some help and solid backup play, we may see another side.

Yea, his durability this year was impressive as hell. How many times did he limp or get assisted off the field only to come back a quarter later?

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