Bengals re-sign Reggie Kelly

[markymark69]

My feeling is that if Carson wanted him, then I want him. Carson feels like he's an important part of the offense plus you add locker room presence. It was a good move in my opinion.

[Vol_Bengal]

Cant complain about any move that keeps as much of this offense in tact as possible, and it was quite cheap considering. Without injuries this year, we could set all sorts of records on O...now if the D could just...

You aren't kidding!! Graham just signed a 5 year $30 million contract in Denver with $15 million of it guaranteed. A tight end isn't worth that much and definitely not Daniel Graham. I said I'd like him at the right price and he signed for significantly more than what I felt was the right price. Taking that into consideration I'm glad they got Kelly done and solidified his position again.

[AGrizzlyBaer]

I've been hard on Reggie in past but I'm really glad he's back...I just wanna see spot 2# given to a young guy rather then big money stewart

I think you'll probably get your wish. Whether it be Guenther, Day, or Ghent... I don't expect Stewart back. However, he did make some pretty big catches last year when no one else was stepping up. I know his stats weren't all that impressive, but he had some important receptions for 1st downs last season.

Throw Tab Perry into the mix on certain downs as well....I think Tab is very important next year as the WR/KR/HB/TE....

I would go with Kelly, Ghent and Tab mixed in....

dont forget benny brazil

[BTG]

From Hobson's column:

The Bengals bid to re-sign safety Kevin Kaesviharn may have taken a hit because their salary cap space probably shrunk by more than half with Kelly’s cap number figuring to be in the $1.5-1.8 million range.

What? Hang on a second, how is that? According to reports on NFL.com, we started out the offseason with about 30 million in cap room, but we're so strapped right now that we can't even resign Kevin Kaseviharn. Meanhile, Washington was 2.7 million dollars OVER the cap, and they've signed Smoot and Fletcher-Baker. Isn't that odd?

"But wait, BTG, they signed a bunch of RFAs and franchised Justin."

Yea, but how much did that actually cost then in comparison to their initial room under the cap? Let's take a look. I'm going to round numbers to the lowest million just to save time. I have work to do, but damn it, I want to work this out and I don't want to add and subtract thousands of dollars.

We cut Simmons which gave us about 32 million.

After that, we franchised Justin, leaving us with about 23 million.

We then tendered Larson and Andrews for 1.3 million each, leaving us with about 20 million.

Greg Brooks (why?), Landon, Caleb, Shaun Smith all tendered for 850 K each, which leaves us with about 16 million.

Give them 8 million for the rookies and another million for inseason stuff they say they need, and you have 7 million left.

Resigned Kelly for 2 mil this season ... that's 5 million left.

Again, all these numbers are rounded down.

[bengal4life]

My feeling is that if Carson wanted him, then I want him.

Took the words right out of my mouth

[derekshank]

Well Reggie's a nice guy, so you know the Bengals' would keep him if he came cheap - and thankfully it took their QB to do their negotiating for them.

Yawn.

Hmm. You bitch all week about how Kelly visited the Falcons, and how it seemed like the Bengals were sitting on their hands. You complain about how the Bengals were making no effort to retain Kelly... and then when they do (proof that they had made him an offer earlier), you give all the credit to Carson followed by a "Yawn."

In other words... in Shula's opinion, the Bengals can't do anything right.

The definition of pessimism: A tendency to stress the negative or unfavorable. I'm going to call it Shulaism from now on.

[BTG]

I'm sorry, the phrase "Shulaism" is already in use, and has been since 1995. It is a "word or phrase used by an individual that shows the ineptitude and confused nature of a person who is clearly in over their head."

example: "Rick Barnes' Shulaism about Kevin Durant's lack of touches in the second half of the Kansas game (prior to rolling his ankle) proves that he shouldn't even be coaching a high school basketball team, let alone a team in a major conference."

[Whur CHad At?]

BTG, you crack me up

[BTG]

Off topic, someone needs to run Rick Barnes car off the road before the tournament. I can see it now, Texas is down six to someone, and he'll have Durant standing off to the side doing nothing. RUN PLAYS FOR HIM, YOU DOLT!

Even though I don't like Texas, this really bothers me as a basketball fan. Not running plays for KD would be like OSU playing Oden at the free throw line and running the offense through him on the high post. Completely and utterly ridiculous.

[BengalByTheBay]

Well Reggie's a nice guy, so you know the Bengals' would keep him if he came cheap - and thankfully it took their QB to do their negotiating for them.

Yawn.

Actually, this seems to be a pretty commonplace occurrence when a team leader tries to get a FA to take less of a contract to stay with the team -- promises of success and increased role and all that stuff. If anything, the Bengals almost never play this card -- so that's some improvement. Objectively, it's a stupid move to make for the FA, but it generally makes the fanbase feel all warm & cuddly inside -- that is, if you don't have a heart of coal. Come on grinchy, cheer up just a little. Is RK just a nice guy, or is he a decent player too? Or does he now suck because he's still here? I'm guessing if he was holding a press conference in front of an Atlanta Falcons mik right now he'd be the s**t.

[HairOnFire]

BTG, you crack me up

Me too. Then again I've always loved comedians who use newspaper clippings and internet rumors to determine how much cap room an NFL team has.

"And in breaking news, comic strip character Hagar the Horrible claims the Vikings still have more than 20 million bucks of cap space."

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Well Reggie's a nice guy, so you know the Bengals' would keep him if he came cheap - and thankfully it took their QB to do their negotiating for them.

Yawn.

Hmm. You bitch all week about how Kelly visited the Falcons, and how it seemed like the Bengals were sitting on their hands. You complain about how the Bengals were making no effort to retain Kelly... and then when they do (proof that they had made him an offer earlier), you give all the credit to Carson followed by a "Yawn."

In other words... in Shula's opinion, the Bengals can't do anything right.

The definition of pessimism: A tendency to stress the negative or unfavorable. I'm going to call it Shulaism from now on.

If you can point out a particular post where I said this then I'll take it seriously and rebuke.

Otherwise I have no freakin' idea what you're talking about.

If you want to make personal attacks - take it to PM and address the subject matter instead Derek.

[HairOnFire]

Actually, this seems to be a pretty commonplace occurrence when a team leader tries to get a FA to take less of a contract to stay with the team -- promises of success and increased role and all that stuff. If anything, the Bengals almost never play this card -- so that's some improvement. Objectively, it's a stupid move to make for the FA, but it generally makes the fanbase feel all warm & cuddly inside -- that is, if you don't have a heart of coal.

It's not stupid if the free agent is overly concerned with earning every dime he might make. For example, Reggie Kelly claims he left money on the table to sign with the Bengals, but I'll argue the Bengals are more likely to be consistent playoff contenders than Arizona, Oakland, or Atlanta.

[BTG]

BTG, you crack me up

Me too. Then again I've always loved comedians who use newspaper clippings and internet rumors to determine how much cap room an NFL team has.

"And in breaking news, comic strip character Hagar the Horrible claims the Vikings still have more than 20 million bucks of cap space."

I think he was referring to my dig at Dave Shula and/or Rick Barnes, but whatever.

To you I say, HOW ELSE are you supposed to figure out how much cap room the Bengals might have? Should I blindly follow Geoff Hobson's articles and believe we're so strapped for cash that we can't so much as resign Kevin Kaseviharn even though we released Brian Simmons to clear more space a week ago? Didn't we have an excess of cash anyway when we did that? So where did it all go? Did Mikey go buck wild with Snoop Dogg out in Vegas or something? Did he make it rain on a bunch of strippers? Seriously, what happened?

[ShulaSteakhouse]

Well Reggie's a nice guy, so you know the Bengals' would keep him if he came cheap - and thankfully it took their QB to do their negotiating for them.

Yawn.

Actually, this seems to be a pretty commonplace occurrence when a team leader tries to get a FA to take less of a contract to stay with the team -- promises of success and increased role and all that stuff. If anything, the Bengals almost never play this card -- so that's some improvement. Objectively, it's a stupid move to make for the FA, but it generally makes the fanbase feel all warm & cuddly inside -- that is, if you don't have a heart of coal. Come on grinchy, cheer up just a little. Is RK just a nice guy, or is he a decent player too? Or does he now suck because he's still here? I'm guessing if he was holding a press conference in front of an Atlanta Falcons mik right now he'd be the s**t.

You are making an awful lot of assumptions.

I am failing to remember the last vet to publicly call a UFA on the road and convince him to come back home for cheap? Please provide examples of what you proclaim is "normal" in the NFL.

My "Yawn" comment references the fact that I expected Kelly to be resigned, as a minimally acceptable effort, because they have no backup plan for Kelly, no one to replace him, and too many other needs in the draft to address, to pick an upgrade. Furthermore they lost their top 2 interior lineman last year, and losing yet another top blocker would put that o-line into some serious hurt.

So I am not all happy and giddy about someone they should've extended last year, or at least well before he went out on his UFA trips, until the Bengals' freakin' QB had to do their negotiating for them practically.

Nowhere in my post did I complain or say it was a bad thing.

The Bengals' saved some $ on a mediocre TE - whoo hoo. Forgive me for not getting all charged up about it.

I expect more and want to win - I don't care what excuses people have for this team on here!

[BengalByTheBay]

Nowhere in my post did I complain or say it was a bad thing.

Agreed -- that's why I was asking whether you thought he was just a nice guy or actually a good player. I'm trying to find out what, beyond "yawn," was your reaction to this when we have seemingly opposite reactions to all of the FA moves. If you were going to give some credit as a balance to the relatively substantial degree of blame, I was interested. I tend to lend more credibility to somebody's opinions, over time, when they appear willing to concede certain points. (BTW - It should be pretty clear from my original post, doing much the same with Hoosier, that I'm somewhat less than giddy about signing Reggie Kelly.) I guess I have my answer....thanks.

As for the "trying to convince a teammate to stay and take less money" angle -- I am short of links to newspaper articles or whatever you may be looking for. I could swear I recall such stories within the last few years, such as Manning trying to convince Edge to stay early on last year. I also recall a thread on this forum about some Bengals players trying to talk Steinbach into staying this year. I may be crazy about all that - perhaps it was a dream.

[HairOnFire]

...HOW ELSE are you supposed to figure out how much cap room the Bengals might have? Should I blindly follow Geoff Hobson's articles and believe we're so strapped for cash that we can't so much as resign Kevin Kaseviharn even though we released Brian Simmons to clear more space a week ago? Didn't we have an excess of cash anyway when we did that? So where did it all go?

Well, how much did they have? The truth is you can't tell me despite your efforts to nail down the number by endlessly researching multiple internet sources...mostly because those sources don't agree on the total. In fact, they all differ by several million bucks, right? So the best you can do is wildly guess and then hope you came within a couple million or two of the actual figure.

Frankly, you might as well throw a dart at a number covered wall.

As for me, I prefer to think that the Bengals have enough cap room to sign any deal they're prepared to make. They either have the cap room immediately available OR can create it by signing a tendered or franchise tagged player to a long-term contract OR by cutting a player now that they fully intend to release later OR by dipping into their rookie pool. Granted, that money is allocated but won't be needed for months, right?

So for me the question isn't if they have the cap room needed to sign Kaesviharn but rather if they're prepared to pay him as much as another team might.

[Stripes]

I expect more and want to win - I don't care what excuses people have for this team on here!

That's perfectly understandable. Still, to disregard every excuse when many of them are perfectly valid... you're doing yourself (and sometimes others on the board) a disservice.

[BTG]

...HOW ELSE are you supposed to figure out how much cap room the Bengals might have? Should I blindly follow Geoff Hobson's articles and believe we're so strapped for cash that we can't so much as resign Kevin Kaseviharn even though we released Brian Simmons to clear more space a week ago? Didn't we have an excess of cash anyway when we did that? So where did it all go?

Well, how much did they have? The truth is you can't tell me despite your efforts to nail down the number by endlessly researching multiple internet sources...mostly because those sources don't agree on the total. In fact, they all differ by several million bucks, right? So the best you can do is wildly guess and then hope you came within a couple million or two of the actual figure.

Frankly, you might as well throw a dart at a number covered wall.

As for me, I prefer to think that the Bengals have enough cap room to sign any deal they're prepared to make. They either have the cap room immediately available OR can create it by signing a tendered or franchise tagged player to a long-term contract OR by cutting a player now that they fully intend to release later OR by dipping into their rookie pool. Granted, that money is allocated but won't be needed for months, right?

So for me the question isn't if they have the cap room needed to sign Kaesviharn but rather if they're prepared to pay him as much as another team might.

But my point is, Hobson is adament that we can't even afford to buy a player a meal at McDonalds, and every single thing I've read and researched disagrees with that.

[HairOnFire]

My point is, Hobson is adament that we can't even afford to buy a player a meal at McDonalds, and every single thing I've read and researched disagrees with that.

Then stop reading what he writes.

Simply put, criticizing the Bengals moves in free agency due to the opinion and speculation of a beat writer seems a tad bit goofy, ehhh?

[BTG]

Then what do you suggest I do to get Bengals info? Bengals.com and the Enquirer are pretty much the only two avenues available to an out-of-towner.

[Stripes]

Then what do you suggest I do to get Bengals info? Bengals.com and the Enquirer are pretty much the only two avenues available to an out-of-towner.

Message board speculation > media speculation.

[BTG]

Message board speculation > media speculation.

And where do message board posters get their info from? Ah yes, there's the rub.

FYI:

From Hobson's latest mail bag:

"(the Bengals) feel they don't have room to sign a petition, never mind a free agent."

WHAT?! He flip flops more than John Kerry!

Again, the Redskins began the offseason 2.7 million over, and they're able to sign players. Can anyone legitimately explain why this is?

[BengalByTheBay]

Message board speculation > media speculation.

And where do message board posters get their info from? Ah yes, there's the rub.

FYI:

From Hobson's latest mail bag:

"(the Bengals) feel they don't have room to sign a petition, never mind a free agent."

WHAT?! He flip flops more than John Kerry!

Again, the Redskins began the offseason 2.7 million over, and they're able to sign players. Can anyone legitimately explain why this is?

I share your frustration B. I can't keep track of any of this stuff anymore, so I stopped trying. What I feel is true is that some teams do contracts that would violate the cap and then work like hell to figure out how to get under it and some teams don't. I would put the Bengals in the "fiscal responsibility" category that so confounds our fans. Whether you can compete doing business that way is an open question. Just as is the question of whether you can compete, over the course of several years, doing things the other (let's call it the Redskin) way. It's not my money (directly anyway), so if the Bengals could win by breaking the bank periodically, I wouldn't complain. However, since it's not my money I chose to not blame them when they don't -- I would assume it has as much to do with trying to remain competitive long-term as it does with Mike Brown just being cheap because that seems to be too convenient an explanation. I don't really know for sure though.

[derekshank]

Well Reggie's a nice guy, so you know the Bengals' would keep him if he came cheap - and thankfully it took their QB to do their negotiating for them.

Yawn.

Hmm. You bitch all week about how Kelly visited the Falcons, and how it seemed like the Bengals were sitting on their hands. You complain about how the Bengals were making no effort to retain Kelly... and then when they do (proof that they had made him an offer earlier), you give all the credit to Carson followed by a "Yawn."

In other words... in Shula's opinion, the Bengals can't do anything right.

The definition of pessimism: A tendency to stress the negative or unfavorable. I'm going to call it Shulaism from now on.

If you can point out a particular post where I said this then I'll take it seriously and rebuke.

Otherwise I have no freakin' idea what you're talking about.

If you want to make personal attacks - take it to PM and address the subject matter instead Derek.

Personal attacks? You must be getting more sensitive. I merely pointed out that your posts are the very definition of pessimism. This is something you'd have a hard time refuting.

As far as complaints about the Bengals doing nothing in reference to Kelly... maybe this thread will ring a bell Falcons Meeting with Kelly thread

You made statements like:

our current "blocking only" TE is flying out to talk with another team, and the Bengals, per the norm, don't even have a visit lined up with anybody.

and

Bengals are waiting around for someone who's cheap and desperate.

Clear attacks on the Bengals for not attempting to re-sign one of their own, or at least plan ahead for his departure. Then when they do... yawn.